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History DeDion axles on hot rods

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ned Ludd, May 27, 2009.

  1. Tire Changer
    Joined: Jun 6, 2013
    Posts: 1

    Tire Changer
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Yep. Gary Bettenhausen had one in a USAC spring car. Black 99. He also moved the fuel to side pods from the tail and it had an on board starter and could start going from a dead stop without a push truck. Freaked out the USAC community at the time! The one jealous car owner, at a race in Salem Indiana filed a protest claiming the car had illeagal areo-dynamics because the tops on the side fuel pods had a very minor incline front front to back. The De Dion suspension was also removed due to stability issues. But it was certainly some of the first innovations to that sport in many, many years!
     
  2. John Stauffer
    Joined: Dec 31, 2015
    Posts: 2

    John Stauffer

     
  3. John Stauffer
    Joined: Dec 31, 2015
    Posts: 2

    John Stauffer

    I once had a Clark Motor Home, maybe a 1969(?) that had a 225 slant six Dodge engine and it had a de Dion rear axle, but I don't know who made these axles. Anyone know of plans to built one's own de Dion rear for something under 400 HP ? I'm thinking of twin cantilever leaf springs (nostalgia) like John Cobbs Naiper Lion speed record racer, circa 1928.
     
  4. BillyShope
    Joined: Nov 15, 2007
    Posts: 131

    BillyShope
    Member

    Don't know whether this has been mentioned, but one significant problem I've seen in the execution of a DeDion or IRS is the failure to recognize the positional shift of the constant percent antisquat lines. The result is terrible squat on acceleration. With the DeDion or IRS, the lines pass through the tire centerline rather than through the tire patch. A similar problem arises when the drivetrain package from a front wheel drive is installed in the rear of a car. The instant center for the front wheel drive car is situated to minimize dive on braking. So, considerable work is needed to change its position for decent acceleration attitude.
     
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  5. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Just sprayed coffee outta my nose!!:p:p I gotta remember that one, like I could ever forget it!!
     
  6. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,700

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Most DeDions have telescoping axle shafts but the Rover used a telescoping dead axle. Reason, the axle shafts will bind under acceleration.
     
  7. dan griffin
    Joined: Dec 25, 2009
    Posts: 505

    dan griffin
    Member

    In the early 50s Allards cleaned a lot clocks and they all had De Dion rear ends.



    dio
     
  8. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,159

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    The P6 went to a lot of trouble to avoid using CV joints! It had fixed-length, Hooke-jointed drive shafts, and thus required the axle itself to be variable in width. The sliding joint devised to achieve that also enables the "longitudinal Watts linkages" location, because it allows a bit of angular difference between the two parts. In all it's not an inelegant solution, as it uses complexity committed to for one reason to address at least one other reason, but it isn't the definitive DeDion.
    [​IMG]
    There is at least one well-known website which pooh-poohs the DeDion axle because of the compexity of the Rover system, as if that complexity were essential to the DeDion principle as such. It isn't.

    Most sensible would be to use CV joints in the way which has become standard on virtually every FWD car out there: one joint on each drive shaft, usually the inner, has a telescoping facility, either by the ball grooves of one element being formed straight rather than curved ("plunge" joints) or the inner joint sliding on a spline off the differential.
     
  9. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,700

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Allard flailing arm front suspension
    For those who are not familiar... Allard suspension made of a Ford axle sawn in half
    [​IMG]

    And the same in action

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  10. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I wish my dad were still alive, he would have been rolling on the floor if he'd heard that! and yes, Allards won a lot of races, but it was in spite of the front suspension, not because of it. Great photos, especially this one...
    [​IMG]
     
  11. dan griffin
    Joined: Dec 25, 2009
    Posts: 505

    dan griffin
    Member

    Does the term man handle apply?
     
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  12. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Looking at that photo, I would say "HELL YES!":D
     
  13. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,384

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    RE Allards winning a lot of races... I suspect it was because of his American approach - put a huge ass engine it! Gary
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
    falcongeorge likes this.
  14. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,944

    Mart
    Member

    De dion rears and hot rods don't really go together. It's more a sports car setup. Ok, you may find one or two isolated examples but they are not mainstream hot rod fare. Personally I don't think they have "the look" of a hot rod.

    Mart.
     

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