Definitive S-10 Frame Swap Vehicle List

You know, after I posted that I got to thinking about it, and yeah, I definitely misspoke! Those are all definitely old trucks, with all the character, etc that goes along with them - and I probably should've said, "Those are all running S-10 frames".

No doubt!

~Jason

 

Originally, I created it to kind of centralize all the S-10 posts in one place. Should this one go away, once a month or so people will likely post additional threads like it, as it's very popular. People come here to the HAMB specifically to look at this thread from at least 3 other different boards, and many become new members. This thread comes up on the second page of results when looking for "S-10 Frame Swap" in a Google search, and keeps rising to the top of the results. Beneath the surface, this thread has a lot going on.

I have no problem moving it to a HAMB Group format, and would gladly do all the moving and final delete myself if provided the additional rights to my profile on the board, but I remain of the opinion that in the main forum this thread has it's place.

Granted, we're not all building hiboy roadsters, but still - is swapping one part - a frame in this case - THAT different from swapping in a TH400 & SBC into that same roadster to get it back on the road?

I suppose it comes down to a subculture of the "traditional" scene: the "Traditional-Style" scene. Food labels have certain requirements - if you want to sell "Kansas City BBQ" and put it on your label, it has to actually be made in Kansas City, otherwise (like if it's made in Chicago or something), you have to put "Kansas City STYLE" on the label. I suppose it's like that.

Because we're NOT street rodders. And we're sure as hell NOT Rat Rodders.

So I guess we're more of a "Traditional-Style" crowd. Excluding us from the main board also means excluding folks that are running ANYTHING newer than 1964 PERIOD, down to engine and braking styles, seat belts, etc, if you're drawing a line in the sand as to what "traditional" actually is... and that would be half the board! Part of the HAMB's appeal is that it accepts the "Traditional-Style" people, and it's a huge reason for it's popularity - and we are so close on the Hot Rod Family Tree. Yeah, it's okay to have disc brakes. Sure, seat belts are a great idea. An iPod in your ride for tunes? Rock on! Hillborn EFI? It's not everybody's cup of tea, but sure - if you hide the wires and it looks cool, the more the merrier! But chassis swaps are fine, as long as it's something from Pete & Jakes? Using the subframe is fine, but not the whole S-10 chassis - something, I might add, that no one ever sees? People have been doing chassis swaps for years, but it's only considered "traditional" if it's with Deuce rails?

Granted, a line has to be drawn somewhere, and we all understand that, but there's no reason to lump us in with the "Street Rod" scene.

So I ask you: please give us a chance - at least until bigtumtum's done with his ride? Take a vote amongst the guys. Let me clean it up a little. Anything is worth a shot here to keep this on the main board. When it all boils down to it, it may well end up "A Devil You Know", and the lesser of two evils. The alternative - segregation and elimination - will only insure this same type of thread coming up time and time again, as there are several thousand like-minded folks out there.

I'm not trying to bust ANYBODY's balls here - just saying my piece.

Won't you please give us a chance? Anything I can do to keep it's inclusion on the main board, I'll do.

~Jason

By the way, who else has a problem, with our thread, Paul?

 

I have been following this thread with great interest, and tend to agree with Abomination. Hot-Rodding at it's best. I'm a poor soul looking to get the best bang for my buck, and I want my parts chaser to be even more economical to build than a show rod, this looks like a viable alternative. Thanks for all the hard work you guys do, Paul. We all surely appreciate it!!!!!!!!!

 

And by the way guys, I am in NO WAY busting on Paul, who incidentally totally rocks, and works his ASS off on this board to keep it on track. His intentions and his honor were never in question.

And I agree Unclee - his work IS appreciated, as is the work of all the other admins. They make a lot of tough decisions daily, some that don't exactly gain them popularity, but still - they do the dirty work (of which, I am sometimes not envious of). Many times several of us have been following a thread that has been closed, and immediately disagree with it, but after sleeping on it decide that in the end they did agree, and that the difficult call was for the best.

Now, I'm not kissing Paul's ass here or anything - just acknowledging that the admins here do a hell of a job.

And still, even with this in mind, I still believe that not letting this thread stand is a bad idea.

~Jason

 

I don't agree with Paul. This is a very popular thread as it keeps popping up and it sure shouldn't offend anyone. I also think it is in the spirit of traditional as we did in the old days by using new ideas and parts to build a rod.
I also mean no offense.

 

I think Paul is correct. Ryan pretty much lays it out in the Read this First in the intro section. It's about tradition and not the spirit of hot rodding. They let a lot of stuff get by, this thread and the others in the past. But this site costs money to run, if this diversion from what Ryan set the site up to be is costing bandwidth (i.e. money) and the mods feel they need to crack down, so be it. If there is that much interest someone could probably create a site to cater to nothing but S10 swaps.

 

OK delete what you have outlined in red.
It would then read
"traditional as we did in the old days by using new ideas and parts to build a rod."
Nowhere in Ryans statement can I find anything that would preclude updating an old truck.
Certainly more traditional than tattoos.

 

That same post says:

"We have very few written rules here on the HAMB and that’s the way we like it, but we won’t hesitate to dump disruptive posters, ego freaks, or shit talkers. We are all here to learn and teach - please keep your other perogatives on the sidelines. "

This thread was a collection of S-10 posts made here on the HAMB, put together for informational purposes. But if this post is "disruptive", what with it's almost 50k views, then so be it.

However, this is a battle to be fought another day, my friend. Regardless of where the battle line may be drawn defining "traditional", fighting it within this thread takes it a little off-topic, guys... weren't we talking about Chassis swaps?

~Jason

 

You know, I did think a poll or vote might be appropriate, but this ain't a democracy, man! And it wouldn't sway anybody whether or not to keep it or not - the Powers That Be can take it down whenever they want, with no reason at all.

The off-HAMB site is something that may occur later, should the HAMB community decide to purge the S-10 chassis people.

~Jason

 

yeah post a tattoo thread and see how quick it gets deleted.

I guess you just don't get what traditional is, it's as it was done, not the spirit in which it was done. If we went by the spirit then we'd be talking Honda's here, the ricer kids sure as hell are in the spirit of hot rodding.

 

LOL! Ain't THAT the truth!

And just for the record, chassis swaps are traditional, but the HAMB's benevolence is what allows this thread to keep on: S-10 chassis swaps aren't traditional, and a recent development.

Originally, the HAMB was pretty strict with regard to not allowing things that weren't done before 1964. Of late, the "Kinder, gentler" HAMB has adopted a little bit broader scope and allowed some differing stuff, which was inevitable as it brought on more and more people.

All I'm asking for is for the S-10 frame guys to be included in that scope. If Flat Ernie can have his T5 thread (and T5s certainly aren't traditional), why not let this thread continue?

~Jason

 

Jason,

thanks for your input here at this thread i realy hope we can keep it alive...

and there must be a place on this forum were stuff like this can get a place its not only about hot rodding but also about Tech. i mean what Abomination says is true this is verry pop. and thats also a good thing for this forum so please give it a change..

 

In trying to keep it alive here is a link to my build
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275757&page=3&highlight=binder

 

what about on a 1953 oldsmobile 2 dr post http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=2662&pictureid=21991

 

Why not. Did you measure everything out to see if it will fit?

 

do you know the dimensions of the original frame?? what is the org. wheelbase?

can you make a drawing or a pics with the measermenys from the original body brackets..

 

Here's some wheelbase figures to help you out:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1950-1953-oldsmobile5.htm

~Jason

 

It will work but much of the rear floor will have to go and you won`t have much room for a back seat. I am using a S10 front clip in my 52 Fleetline. This has been done a number of times,You can eather graft the S10 clip to your stock frame or if the frame is shot(like mine) you can build a custom rear frame.This is what I am doing. You can also use 80`s GM mid size frames too like the Monte Carlo. They work well also.

 

Like C4 Metal Werks' custom rear frame, which is totally badass, I might add:



~Jason

 

Posted this for someone in another thread then realized it should be here too.

S10 Rear Axle Info

There's 3 widths of S10 rearends.
Doesn't matter if it's a Blazer or truck, they share.

WMS to WMS width
55" = 2WD
59" = 4WD
63" = ZR2 off road option

7.5 vs 8.5 school
8.5 rearends are not common.
Look in 2nd generation S10's that originaly had a 5 speed trans.
Disc brakes were an option in '95 and became standard about '99.

Below is the visual difference between the 7.5 and the 8.5

7.5" rear end.
Notice how the axle tubes are straight
The rear end cover is more squareish



8.5".
Notice how the housing cover is almost completely round
and the bulge in the axle tube just before it goes into the pumpkin



See the bulge in the axle tube of the 8.5 where it enters the pumpkin.



8.5" cover (left) and the 7.5" cover (right)


Another bit of S10 axle info:
Look in the glovebox for the production "data plate" sticker.
It has the RPO codes to determine ratios and diff type.

GU2 2:73 ratio
GU4 3:08 ratio
GU5 3:23 ratio
GU6 3:42 ratio
GT4 3:73 ratio
GT5 4:10 ratio

GQ1 Open Differential Rear Axle
G80 Positraction/Locking Rear Axle

example:
4:10 posi rear would have two RPO's.
GT5 & G80

Exceptions to the rules:
If you find only a GQ1 on the data plate and no
"GU" or "GT" codes, then it's an open diff "standard ratio" of 3:08.

If there's no "G80" or "GQ1" it's an open diff.

 

LowKat - you're my new hero!

~Jason

 

'54 Ford Pickup on an '91 S-15 long bed chassis/floor pan. Somewhat rough, but I'm young and poor (Part-Time Employment for High Schoolers here is very rare)


The floor in the '54 was rotted out, and I originally bought it just for the frame. Made it into a convertible over last years fall break, and decided I must do something with it. Traded a Fox Mustang to the S-15 this summer.


I started by stripping it down to the bare cab. Many sawzall blades later I had a solid firewall, floorpan, and wiring harness to fit my '54. When we picked the '54 up with the loader, all my tacks broke, and the cab fell apart. Yet this only made it easier when I had to saw out the old floor and firewall. There is not much holding the exterior sheetmetal to these things.


I made the mistake of leaving the dog-leg/door hinge mount part of the firewall attached. This was a inch or so too wide on either side when I went to slide the cab on, and I had to use my Sawzall skills to cut these off with the cab wedged above my head. I measured everything several times before cutting, and I'm still not sure how this was not accounted for. You have to cut where they meet the floor(Starting on the doorward side and out) and then start at the corner of the cowl near the A-Pilar, and straight down to sever these things.

Once this was taken care of, It slid on perfectly, and the wheels were centered in the fenders quite well. With the lowest part of the fender being around 3 inches from the ground. I had to raise my stock S-15 seat up about 3 inches to see out as well as I liked. I welded in brackets, and made braces from angle iron to mount my cab and fenders solid to the S-15. The body was too flimsy with opening doors, so I re-tacked them shut (this time on cleaner metal, in a better joint). There is still about a inch or so gap between the doors and S-10 rocker panels, and the interior dog leg is just open where I had to cut the old ones out.


I did cure a bit of the goofy setback these trucks had stock with the front wheels with the swap, though not as much as I'd liked. I kept the entire wiring harness, with the exception of the heater/ac, radio, and ventilation and interior lights, and plan to reuse as much as possible from the S-15 when it comes to wiring headlights, taillights, and turn signals.


Got to drive it for the first time last friday, was about 25 degrees and snowing. Aired up the mismatched tires, added 2 gallons of gas, hooked up a jump pack, and primed the throttle body. Hadn't ran since May. It ran and died 2 or 3 times, put it in gear and pulled forward maybe 50 feet, and backed into the garage where the brakes went out and it stopped itself on a filing cabinent.

I had $150 in the '54 Ford as a whole, junked the motor and got back $25. I made money when I traded the Mustang to the S-15, so by that point I had around $50 in the whole project. Most all the metal I used in making brackets was given to me, and the only thing I really spent money on was Liquid Wrench, Sawzall Blades, Grinding wheels, and Flux Wire.

All work was done outside, for maybe 3 hours a day on average, for about a month. 90% of the time by myself.

The tools I use in building this truck:

Sawzall
Angle Grinder
Hacksaw
Common Handtools (Sockets, wrenchs, screwdrivers, hammers, etc.)
Wal-Mart Campbell and Horseshit Welder
Jackstands

Still needs a decent set of wheels/tires, radiator support built, windsheild, and a bed.

 

I've hacked up a bunch of S10's for various reasons, so have plenty of info to share.
Just ask...

I've done Camaro clips but never used an S10 frame under a hot rod though, so not much help there.

Some more info off the top of my head:

If you're going to use the S10 wiring harness in a carb'd hot rod, look for 82-84 models with the 2.8 V6 carb'd engine. This harness is much simpler and easier to sort out for installation than a FI harness.

If your donor S10 has a Throttle Body 4.3 engine, a 350 TBI engine is nearly plug 'n play using the 4.3 TBI harness. Most stock 350 engines will run OK with the 4.3 computer but if pumped up, will require the 122747 computer for a V8. Transmissions interchange between 4.3 engines & 305/350" (5.0 & 5.7) engines. Look for 1988-92 models.

A stock 4.3 aluminum radiator will cool a stock 350 engine.
C5 Corvette radiators interchange w/4.3. cheap @ Kragen/Schucks.

Pre-1988 and/or 89 model years have cable driven speedometers.
They're electronic after that.

truck frames are 5" tall
Blazer frames are 6" tall

truck rearends have equal length emergency brake cables
Blazers are unequal and have kinda' goofy hardware

leaf springs are different lengths between Blazer and truck(shorter)

2 wheel drive vehicles use a 3-1/2" backspace for the wheels/rims
4WD wheels have a 4-1/2" backspace

4 cylinder, 5 speeds almost always have 4:10 rear gears.

4.3 equipped S10's with a 5 speed trans have Tremec trannys.
These will hold up well behind a pretty warmed-up V8.

Most all Saginaw 605 power steering boxes (Jeep, Ford, Dodge, AMC, GM) will all bolt-up to the frame. My S10 mud bogger has a Ford E250 Van box for the extra long dropped Pitman arm and cross-over steering. I did have to taper ream the small end of the arm but used a 1 ton Dodge tie rod for a draglink.

Astro Van steering boxes also bolt up. The Pitman arm is facing forward, so the internals of the box actually work in reverse. Astro & Safari Vans and full size (post-82) 10 or 20 series vans are good donors for steering column u-joints & components.

Full size vans are also good donors for steering columns as they're short. Pre-76 didn't have the ignition key in the column and tilt was available.

 

You know, I'll bet a guy could make a buck off of bolt-in straight-6 motor mounts for this chassis... there certainly seems to be an interest, although they might need to be weld-in....

Just thinking here...

~Jason

 

it must be posibole to make it bolt on i think why not study on this subject some on has the original mounting for the engine

 

Kruzr, just looking at the pic you posted on definitive s-10 frame swap. Could you please tell me what rack and pinion you used that I see in the picture? What lenght is it from the inner tie rod mounting threadsto the inner tie rod mounting threads? does your application seam to have any "bump steer"? I am getting conflicting ideas as to what length the rack needs to be. Some say that it cannot be wider than the lower "A" arm pivot points, some say not wider than the line from the upper "A" arm pivot to the lower "A" arm pivot point. I wish someone could tell me what is right so I don't have bump steer! Please let me know your thoughts.

Fenderless

 

I am looking at picking up a 46 chev pu. I have a donor S10. I was wondering if anyone has just cut off the firewall of the S10 and transplant truck and spliced it in from that point?

 

I doubt that would be simple or good looking.

 

do yourself a favor try to make the brackets what i put online and look if that works...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=2199&pictureid=18140

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=2199&pictureid=18139