Due to my current work and financial situation, it looks like that "real" Hot Rod roadster is going to have to be put off for a little longer. I've got a pretty good idea in my head of what I would like, but after a bit of thinking and considering the licensing laws in Australia and availability of parts, my thoughts started leaning towards using a more readily available basis for a Hot Rod roadster, i.e. a Model A frame and '29 body. First off, many thanks to av8 (Mike Bishop) for his amazing knowledge and his book on this subject. Hopefully you'll see this post and maybe even add some advice. GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!!! OK. Basically, this is the amt '29 Roadster kit and the NEW Ala Kart kit. It's probably hard to tell from the pics, but the Hemi is out of the new Ala Kart kit and it is WAY too small. More like a V6 than a V8! But who cares, it's just a model!!! The chassis is the stock Model A with the '32 crossmember from the Ala Kart added. The rear is the stock Model A, but if I can find a quickchange, I'll be putting that in for sure. Initially I tried the body set on the chassis, but I just didn't like the look of it. Way too high. I then proceeded to channel the body over the chassis. As mentioned in a previous post on the HAMB, channelling should only be done the depth of the frame, and that's what I have done. As it is I'd NEVER fit in this car anyway! The wheels and tyres are exactly what I would love to run on my "real" Hot Rod, but in this case, they're Ala Kart too. I reckon I've got the stance pretty much sorted. Looks good from the rear... ...and the front. I may "step" the frame in the rear as it does have a bit of a "door wedge" look to it. We'll see... As we're not actually out on the lakes racing, I thought a windscreen would be a good option. ...but I didn't want it to look like Goofy's car, so I chopped it a little... probably a little too much. The front axle is also from the Ala Kart and looks like it would have a 4" drop or so. It also has filled ends, which, if you've read av8's book, probably means it got a bit ugly in the king pin/perch area when they dropped it... but hey... it's just a plastic model! Here's a shot from the top. You may be able to make out the steering arm, also pirated from the Ala Kart, but shortened a fair bit. I also used the steering box from the Ala Kart. Might as well make it realistic... now you will also notice that I have left the steering wheel in the original position. To all you Aussies that are going to ask... "Why didn't you make it Right Hand Drive??"... I'll just say, it's a styling exercise! I guess I could always flip the photos in Photoshop. Here's a shot from underneath showing the suspension detail. I really should sort out that front wishbone. It's the stock one out of the Model A kit, but it doesn't clearly show where it's meant to mount. I know they would normally mount to the '32 crossmember, but obviously that isn't going to happen. I'll have to dig around and find a later model one or something. I think I've got a '36 Ford floating around here somewhere! ...and a shot from the top for good measure. And finally, a comparison to what the instructions say it should look like! I think I did a slightly better job than the one eyed dyslexic artist that drew that thing!!! For those interested in the photo side of things. I took these pics indoors at night with a couple of lights on. I used a flash and shot it at 1/60th and F16 without a tripod. Sorry for those with short attention spans. I just haven't built a model for ages (since we moved to Sydney. Damn apartments!!) and was worried I might have lost my touch.
are you bringing the AV8 to the Rod and Custom picnic in 3 weeks???? HEHE...kool...im in the 'design' stage of my rod atm..LOWSQUIRE has just finished the paint and bodywork on my kustomised daily driver EK Holden..pics up once i get it back together! CHEERS! maiki
Pretty neat Brootal. I was wondering why you used a 32 front crossmember? Seems that would raise the front as compared to the A crossmember. Regardless, the front end height looks about right, but real world stuff may require the A crossmember to get the car down to match the model. Instead of channeling it, why not take a cue from Mike's Bluey and run some chrome side pipes the length of the body? That fills in the A frame to A body gap when done highboy style. As far as personal opinions go, I think I'd chop the radiator shell. Even if you're not going to run a hood top the car will have better lines. I think you're smart to build a model of what you want to build a little further down the line. The better kits are pretty accurate as far as scaling and measurements go. Down to about a 1/8" + or - tolerance I believe it is. I had some old photos of a Deuce roadster that I shot from a ways away with telephoto on an asphalt - macadam in OZ? or tarmac? The car looked fairly real all things considered and gave a good view toward how the real thing would look.
I'll second the rediculously miniature-ness of the Ala-Kart hemi. I'm putting it in the new Revell '31 Model A Sedan kit (which btw, comes with WAY to high suspension, gotta cut the frame up to even get the tires inside the fenders). That roadster looks good! I wouldn't lower it too much in the rear, it looks pretty cool with the badass rake. Keep it up!!
Didn't the Ala Kart have a Dodge Red ram Hemi? If so that might explain the small size. The Dodge Hemi's were considerably smaller than their Big brother Chryslers. BTW, excellent model. Frank
[ QUOTE ] The rear is the stock Model A, but if I can find a quickchange, I'll be putting that in for sure. [/ QUOTE ] The AMT '25 T has a quickchange. It's not the most detailed part, but it would be very easy to adapt to the Model A frame. Looks good so far, though I would agree that stepping the rear would be a good idea.
Brootal, to simulate a QC, all you have to do is swap the rearend front to back and attach a few bosses to the front and rear bottom of the center section. It won't look great (unless you're detail oriented) but it will get the space and relationship thing sorted. Also, I'd take another cue from Bluey. Lean the windscreen pillars back a little. And for engines, buy a kit of a stock car with a HEMI rather than one of the way off scale Roth creation models.
C9 said:[ QUOTE ] I was wondering why you used a 32 front crossmember? Seems that would raise the front as compared to the A crossmember. Regardless, the front end height looks about right, but real world stuff may require the A crossmember to get the car down to match the model. [/ QUOTE ] It's got the stock A front crossmember, what I was talking about was the gearbox (centre) cross member. I guess it's really the "K" member, but the bit that comes with the Ala Kart only has the main crossmember and not the "legs". Like Mike says in his book, a lot of people left the legs out as the mods were too difficult (or appeared to be) for the average Joe. [ QUOTE ] Instead of channeling it, why not take a cue from Mike's Bluey and run some chrome side pipes the length of the body? That fills in the A frame to A body gap when done highboy style. [/ QUOTE ] Because it's too bloody hard to make them out of plastic! It definitely works, but I was curious to see how a channelled '29 would look. Personally, I still like the "depth" that a '32 frame adds. [ QUOTE ] As far as personal opinions go, I think I'd chop the radiator shell. Even if you're not going to run a hood top the car will have better lines. [/ QUOTE ] I would too, but once again, bloody hard to do in plastic. We don't have the luxury of readily available plastic chroming. I have sectioned the radiator a little, but I really want to drop the radiator some more. A section would definitely to the trick. I had the stays in place, but they ran "up", which just looked all wrong. Don't worry C9, my one good eye isn't that far out of whack! fab32 said:[ QUOTE ] Didn't the Ala Kart have a Dodge Red ram Hemi? If so that might explain the small size. The Dodge Hemi's were considerably smaller than their Big brother Chryslers. BTW, excellent model. [/ QUOTE ] Yes it did, and the Model A kit actually comes with the Red Ram. It was just that I had already partly assembled the Ala Kart kit and the motor was tacked together. It was only after I'd done the channel and setup the crossmembers that I remembered that a friend of mine had told me how out of scale the Hemi was in the Ala Kart kit. I compared the exhaust manifolds between the two kits and the Ala Kart manifolds are 3/4 the length of the manifolds in the Model A kit. I guess to be more "correct", I should use the other Red Ram. It's actually a nicer moulding with the "Dodge Red Ram" cast into the rockers. Disadvantage is they're not chromed, whereas the plain covers on the Ala Kart kit are. Like I said, it's a styling exercise (well that's my excuse anyway ) I figured if I ever built something like this, I would probably run a flathead anyway for space considerations (and of course how cool they are). The Ala Kart Hemi is probably not far off the size of a flathead. Oh... and thanks for the positive comments on the model. Now come on av8, where are you?? (probably writing out a 4 page report on the progress of the model ) ...and thanks for the pointers on the QC guys. Cheers.
Not sure if bringing your own post BTTT is the done thing or not, but I want to make sure av8 doesn't miss it. Where is the old bastard?? Out working on a Hot Rod or something!!!
Okay, Boris, you asked for it! You already aknowledge the scale issue with regard to the Hemi, and I think that could set the finished model back quite a ways, IMHO. '28-'29 roadsters don't readily lend themselves to channelling; the body doesn't have much vertical mass and channeling effectively reduces it and tends to make the body look a touch flat and skinny. The body does benefit from a bellypan, as the Neikamp and Flint roadsters do. An easy, no-brainer is to put it on Deuce rails -- and join the immense group of folks who are a little short on imagination. (another ) I've always liked what Dave Mitchell and Don Ferrara did to put some inexpensive visual mass in their pure AV8s, treating the body overhang area as an opportunity to route a dramatic exhaust system and give their cars some special character. My adimiration for these two pioneers is well known, and easily seen in the exhaust system I built for my roadster. BTW, if I were to do it again I would use constant-diameter 3-1/2-inch longe tubes connected with three-into-on collectors, like Ferrara did, rather than the long -- and expensive -- stainless megaphones. Your windshield is way too vertical -- almost looks like it's leaning forward. Give it a 10-12 degree rake and the roadster's attitude will jump out! And it must be plated shiny hardware. I'm trying to get comfortable with the wheel/tire combo, but I have a tough time accepting plated wheels on anything other than '60s street rods and customs. You realize, of course, this is just the opinion of one old silverback . . .
[ QUOTE ] Okay, Boris, you asked for it! You already aknowledge the scale issue with regard to the Hemi, and I think that could set the finished model back quite a ways, IMHO. '28-'29 roadsters don't readily lend themselves to channelling; the body doesn't have much vertical mass and channeling effectively reduces it and tends to make the body look a touch flat and skinny. The body does benefit from a bellypan, as the Neikamp and Flint roadsters do. [/ QUOTE ] Don't worry Mike, I'm a big boy, I can take it. I'm not too fussed about getting it exactly mechanically correct, but more interested in seeing whether an A channelled on a stock chassis would look OK. I agree totally that it looks too "thin", but I think getting it down low helps it immensely. I had a taller tyre combo on it and it looked like a bug! [ QUOTE ] An easy, no-brainer is to put it on Deuce rails -- and join the immense group of folks who are a little short on imagination. (another ) [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I agree entirely, but I don't have a spare '32 chassis at the moment, nor the spare $35 to go buy a '32 kit just for the chassis. (Cheap I know) [ QUOTE ] I've always liked what Dave Mitchell and Don Ferrara did to put some inexpensive visual mass in their pure AV8s, treating the body overhang area as an opportunity to route a dramatic exhaust system and give their cars some special character. My adimiration for these two pioneers is well known, and easily seen in the exhaust system I built for my roadster. BTW, if I were to do it again I would use constant-diameter 3-1/2-inch longe tubes connected with three-into-on collectors, like Ferrara did, rather than the long -- and expensive -- stainless megaphones. [/ QUOTE ] Once again, I agree entirely, but I know what one looks like with the side exhaust, I just get your book out. [ QUOTE ] Your windshield is way too vertical -- almost looks like it's leaning forward. Give it a 10-12 degree rake and the roadster's attitude will jump out! [/ QUOTE ] Yep, that's a no brainer, I just haven't got around to it yet. [ QUOTE ] And it must be plated shiny hardware. [/ QUOTE ] Ditto. I often wonder why people paint them! [ QUOTE ] I'm trying to get comfortable with the wheel/tire combo, but I have a tough time accepting plated wheels on anything other than '60s street rods and customs. [/ QUOTE ] I'm shooting for a late 50's early 60's look with a dark metallic olive green paint job. It's definitely more "rich kid/boulevard cruiser" than lakes racer for the street. But I have painted up a set of wheels with the copper colour that I am using for the engine. I'm not sure if it will work yet. In my head I think it'll look alright, but we'll see. [ QUOTE ] You realize, of course, this is just the opinion of one old silverback . . . [/ QUOTE ] I know a few good beauticians if that'll help! ...and it sure as shit ain't just any old opinion.
A little detail I feel should be corrected from the kit form for best appearance: AMT made the front frame about a scale six inches too wide--cut the ends off the front crossmember and pull the frame rails in til they look like a real A frame, then bend to get the horns parallel again--I think the frame had to be made too wide to allow the stock front apron to fit on the fendered version, since the plastic must scale out to a couple of inches thick on each side! Neat article!
[ QUOTE ] A little detail I feel should be corrected from the kit form for best appearance: AMT made the front frame about a scale six inches too wide--cut the ends off the front crossmember and pull the frame rails in til they look like a real A frame, then bend to get the horns parallel again-- [/ QUOTE ] Aaahhh... I thought it looked a bit goofy around that area. That explains a lot. I guess they weren't expecting guys to hiboy their little kit. Thanks for the tip Bruce.
Scanned a couple more pics the other night. I've lowered it a little more at the rear and sectioned the grille. Also laid the screen back a touch. Not sure if it's the 12 deg that av8 reckons is perfect, but it'll do. Modified the Ala Kart dash insert to fit the stock dash. Should look good with some Bare Metal foild and some paint detail. Can't decide on the chromies or painted steelies. I'll probably go with some Ford caps and dress rings if I can find some to fit. Modified '36 wishbone on the front. Also fitted the exhaust.
Looking pretty good, specially now that the windshield is laid back. I'm wondering if it would look a little better if the rear end was raised a bit so the tire would match the fenderwell arc. Somewhere around here I have some 3/8" stainless tube - which is too stiff to bend, but wonder if it would be close enough for you to use as a long constant diameter side pipe. Not sure about the scale either. Instead of the 3/8" stainless tube, how about some aluminum fuel line? That comes in various diameters and is fairly soft which allows for bends. I built one of Monograms smaller Deuce roadster kits - full fenders and all - and the kit seemed to be very accurate scale-wise. In fact, the Monogram airplane kits I built were quite accurate far as I could tell. I forget the scale on the airplanes, but a typical WW2 fighter had about a 10" wingspan. Did Monogram make a Model A roadster kit? Perhaps - now that you've worked so hard - one of those could be found. I think, as Bruce noted on frame scale, the Monogram kit if there is such an animal would be a better way to go. I don't know if Hubley ever made it to the land down under with their cast metal Model A kits. I had one of those in a Model A coupe I think it was. Never built it, but it was very impressive and perhaps that would work for you as well. Regardless of model brands, the roadster in it's latest iteration is looking very good. The big advantage about the side pipes - aside from looking very good and very right on the A's - is it makes header building a lot easier. Especially if you decide to run the headers outside the frame as I'm thinking of doing on my 31. You can see a pic of those mocked up on the Photo Speriment post. There are more than a few sprint car header setups out there, some specific built for some hot rod combos and others for gennie sprint cars. The latter are easily adaptable and in most cases smoothly bent and good looking.
I totally agree with fenderless Model As needing something to fill in the gap between the body and frame, but that's why I channelled it, so I wouldn't HAVE to build a set of "side pipes". I do have some aluminium tube which might be the right scale. I could try swapping the headers from left to right so that they go over the frame. We'll see. From my knowledge, Monogram never did a Model A. I've built one of their 32s as a highboy and it required (carefully) removing the fenders from the frame. It turned out pretty good. I put the flathead from the '40 Ford pickup in it. The new "Revellogram" '32 is really good, although a little to "Street Rod" for my tastes. Nothing a few choice Parts Pack parts can't fix though.
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