Projects Dirt Modified inline info

The people that built it originally made it theirs.

it’s perfectly fine to make it yours now.

the next guy can do the same

 

First of all, I am from Freeport IL, not Frankfort IL Frankfort is about 150 miles east and south of Freeport. I had to look it up on a map.

Next, historically significant and current value, these days are no longer intertwined together. Just because something may have historic value, that doesn't mean it has a high cash value, unless both the buyer and the seller are concerned about preserving history. That determination is between the two people exchanging money.

Everything you wrote proves my point. Without a known driver or an innovative owner/builder with a proven history, the car does not have value outside of the value of its parts value. All you have done is farther qualify the value, based on being local to where the car was originally raced. Once the car gets 100 miles away from the area it raced at, any historic value may not even count unless the car or driver has national acclaim. I'd even go so far as to say that the time (number of years) between when the car was raced, and when it was sold, also could have an effect on the car's current value. If no one locally remembers the car, or the driver, or the owner/builder, 75 years after it raced, the current value is still just the value of its parts, its history has been erased.

When the person that is buying the car, and the person selling the car agree on a price, that price becomes the car's value, and the people that agreed on that price are the people that determine the value of the car.

 

Check out my post about half way down on the first page of this thread about who owned and raced this car.

 

It’s funny a had a scathing reply for the response that was made this post, then as I was proofreading it I thought about the way this photograph came about.

The legend Joey Lawrence a man the great Jan Opperman drove for on the dirt mile at the New York State fairgrounds the called me over by name to discuss history and show me photos from his collection.
The Kenny Tremont Jr. came over to talk to us, (I don’t know Kenny well but he knows me well enough to nod and say hello), these two man are giants in the sport and we’re treating me as their equal!

I also begin to think of the other people I know and who have become friends, men who have won races, championships, and who are hall of fame members, and just from the northeast but from all over the country.

All of these friendships based on my passion, respect for the history and willingness to learn more about hot rodding and racing.

Why should I care or argue with those who do have the same passion, respect, or willingness to learn?

 

So true!

 

@anthony myrick does have a good idea, Dale Lambrose roadster the sister to the Iacono coupe.

Both cars raced with G.M.C.s with Wayne 12-port heads Hillborns and Uber rare Wayne timing covers-








When the Lambrose roadster was first restored it was done with a stock head and a stock chrome timing cover until the parts could be found.







G.M.C.s are expensive and always have been (most hot GM inline were BlueFlame 235/261s miss identified as Jimmys)

However, you could always do a stock rebuild with a bit of a cam and a stock intake and have some fun with it.

Cyclones are rare however there was one Facebook for about $400 two years ago, (I contacted the man but passed because I already had two and my property taxes were due)


I am thinking that car weighs 2,500 pounds it doesn't take much power to scare you in car that only weighs 2,500 pounds.

Not to mention if this car did race it is possible parts had to be changed to meet track rules.

Going back to Fonda they had their own class of late models (Points awarded as NASCAR hobby stock)

These cars were more like sportsman cut front fenders 53/54 Chevy frames early Ford axles Flamke front ends.
The rules were any post war body, engine and body had to match (Chevy in Chevy Ford in Ford) but any engine to 1960, quick changes legal.

Other parts of the NY quick change rear were not legal in late models.

Many of the Fonda late model guys had also had Timken all set up to swap in for tracks where Q.C. were not legal.

Who's to say that it wouldn't be correct with a stock intake.

 

I’d drive that

 

Well, I've found a cyclone adapter for a reasonable price and decided to go forward with it. I'm just waiting for another member who offered up a McGurk intake to respond and I'll get both of things coming here. I found a complete early 270 nearby, so it's all coming together!

Love those Lakester style cars! Even cooler that they had GMC mills. I've recently watched the short documentary about finding the Arias Bonneville car as well. All of its inspirational. I'd love to eventually build a model T lakester.

 

Do you know what's going on with that water outlet on the head of the Lambrose roadster?

 

It’s always great when some on the HAMB informs us about rare parts… now if I could just find a roller cam.

 

I had a chance to talk with one of the old timers (that would be a guy slightly older then me). He reminded my that back in the early 60s, there were probably close to a dozen dirt tracks with in 100 miles of our local track. Most of those tracks ran on Friday night, Sat night, or Sunday night, but some tracks ran other nights of the week as well. If you were hard core enough, you could have raced 7 days a week.

Among those dozen or so tracks, some had much better pay outs then others. The big payoff tracks pulled more cars and more spectators (our local track had several years in a row with big payouts and the crowds and car count during those years proved it). Most of the big payoff tracks had their own set of rules (how tightly they enforced those rules may have been questionable).

According to my friend, some smaller venue tracks close to a big paying track would race a different night, and use the same rules, hoping to draw the cars and fans to their track on a night the big track was not running. It was not unusual for three tracks local to each other, to adapt the same rule base and fill the usual three night weekend racing schedules. The guys trying to make a living racing would usually be set up to run the big payoff tracks, and were equipped to change what ever parts they needed to, to follow that track's rules.

I suspect most parts of the country had the same basic story going on. It is entirely possible that a car that may have survived a few seasons, following varying track rules, could have had several different combinations of parts, and still would have been period correct at one of many tracks the car ran successfully at.

 

A friend in Northern California has that part off Ike’s engine (see it on Ike’s coupe photo) and knew Ike. I believe he said it was a coolant bleeder as he ran alcohol and engine wasn’t a big problem. Ike didn’t use it in the dragster Pat Ganahl restored. The friend has Sonny Baleans GMC Wayne Head.
The roadster has a Horning and possibly a different cam cover. Hard to read the name but possibly a Skinner.

 

Interesting, I've never been around alcohol as a fuel so I wondered how they moved enough coolant around with such a small tube.

 

Methanol is a wonderful fuel for racing. In my injected 350, the radiator was from a 50s Chrysler product, a small honeycomb core, that we never had to use a fan. And most nights to get any temperature in the engine at all, 3/4 or more of the radiator was blocked off by a sheet of plastic. Racing at 150 to 160 f was the norm. Didn’t need much water flow, so a pair of -8 lines were enough for the water return.

The old timers that ran flatheads early on, if allowed methanol, could keep them cooler. Just run a little bit rich.

 

Remember they were drag race cars…notice no water pumps..

 

OK, I get it now. For whatever reason I was thinking they were land speed cars. Thanks for the clarification!

 

I know where there is one for a Chevy it's a McGurk. I am keeping track of it!

It was in this car Ray Kennedy's 261 powered Pontiac coupe, 1966 NYS (dirt mile) Fair winner Larry Nye driver.

The New York State Fair race was flathead/inline only until the late 1960s (1968 I believe).
Many of the tracks northern/central parts of New York state stayed flathead/inline into the late 1960s, as did one of the Connecticut tracks (Danbury?)

 

One thing I have discovered is many of the "old timers" still have a fair amount of their old parts and are willing to part with them to people who are interested and respect the past.

There was talk of monetary of the parts I could care less about how much to parts are worth in terms of dollars and cents.

"It's more than just a car." That is something non-car people will never understand!
I can tell you where every part in my racecar came from, most were handmade by myself and my dad but there are many vintage parts that came from the real deal racers and hot rodder of yesterday!
My rocker N.O.S arms/rocker arms came out of the collection of Amos "Mac" Maccreery founder of the Kington Igniters.
The steering box came from Russ Betz owner builder of the 59 Every-Ready modified, he changed from manual to power steering when Maynard Forett drove for him, which means my car has a direct connection to Maynard.
I two of the hubs and one of my Q.C. sideplates came from Rich Ricci. Yes, that is a Boss 429 in his car!
A few pieces came from Frank Blanchard.
Jack Miller longtime family friend 1973 Fonda Late Model Champion and Fonda H.O.F.
There are parts my dad built years ago for one of his cars he never used that have been sitting on the shelf for 50 years that are now in my car!
I see these people when I look at my car, I also remember the roadtrips to chase down parts.
Like the trip with my dad to the old sawmill to pull the 261 Chevy of an old bunk truck and seeing him come shooting out from under it when the snake crawled out of the bell housing that was the hardest, I have ever laughed.



Jack in victory lane at Fonda 1973, far right of photo left to right Harlod Jesse, Willard Palmer (My Dad) and Larry Wolford....


2023 Larry Wolford, Jack Miller and my Dad at Jack's induction in the Fonda H.O.F. 2023

 

A comment here was, some things that may be historical but of little value ( like me ?). Long story to a point. In the 1960's Dad and friends picked up a NHRA sanction to start a drag strip. First try was Anaheim Ca, till the city decided they would try itself, failed. Then they tried Irvine Ca. or more specific Irvine Ranch next to the El Toro Marine base. Dad pulled back to a minor investment and kept the security for the track. Thus OCIR or Orange County International Raceway. As a high school kid I worked there and and the dream life for a guy. Without all of that, through rag chew and what not, we picked up a 1956 Olds circle track car, for the engine and trans and a god offal looking dragster with no engine. I think Austin chassis, Lincoln rear end, LaSalle transmission, Ford front end with Lincoln brakes. Body was tube cage covered in hand formed fiberglass sheet, fiberglass fenders and chrome roll bar. ? ! ? !. Had run a number of engines from V8-60 to some OHV unidentified. Had yellow California license plate on it ? ?

What puzzled at first was, there was a set of full body - hood "Moon Eyes" painted on the all white body. No stickers or other just the "Moon Eyes" . We kept asking at the track and the guys said , " oh that was one of Dean Moon's first race cars, a test bench kind of ". That was 1969 when we picked up that package. Does that make it valuable ?? Only to me I guess, but it is kind of cool. I never sell anything, its here in storage along with other stuff in the Vintage Tin National Park - California.

 

Well, I got to spend some more time digging through the car this weekend and found some cool stuff. It has truck axles in it and a third 3/4 ton spindle mounted on the right front along with an oversized 16" rear Firestone Deluxe Champion tire in that position. That definitely juves with what I've read and seen on here of other same era super modified cars.

The right rear tire has to be one of the oldest Hoosiers around, the logo is spelled HOOS1ER and has some checkered flags on it. The left rear tire is a General white wall pie crust with grooves cut in it. Unfortunately it's a goner and has started to separate and has been sitting on a flat spot so long, it will never be round again. The left front is some sort of Firestone street tire and is much smaller than the right front tire.

You can see where the fronts were definitely made from artillery wheel centers, while the left rear has more of a home made bolt circle and welded reinforcements. The right rear is also cobbled together from a stock bolt center but no wedge shaped reinforcements.

The pics don't show, but I got all the drums and wheel bearings off and the 2 rear axles removed. Bad pic of the quick change cover, but it is a plain cast item. I didn't see any markings.

I also got the transmission out and took the top off and verified it has only one gear set in it and has the shifter safety wired to one side to only use one "gate" as it were. Included is a photo of the flange with splines to mate the input shaft to the crankshaft.

There's also plenty of evidence in the engine bay and other places on the frame that this was not the car's first configuration. A flat mount with 2 holes is still evident on the left side about half way up a diagonal tube that has since been hacked off just above the mount and below the top rail tube. The opposite side of the car shows no evidence of such a mount, but the same tube is there, albeit in the form of a rotini noodle about midsection.

I also figured out that there's a set of shoulder and lap belts mounted in the car, plus an extra set of lap belts that were laying on the seat dated 1962. These are in much better shape and pliable compared to the stiff original belts mounted in the car. I'm guessing someone had intentions to replace them sometime since 1962...haha.

I also figured out there is an oil tank of sorts in the rear next to the gas tank. When looking up from underneath, you can see the gas tank is made from some sort of drum with the logos or stenciling still on it. The oil tank is OD green and somewhat ammo can shaped, maybe just some sort of surplus fluid container. What I'm not sure about is there seems to be a large diameter hose that runs to the engine bay and is hanging loose as well as a smaller diameter one, both seeming ro run from the oil tank. The gas tank has its own lines. Surely there wasn't some sort of dry sump engine in there? I was thinking it was just a vent and catch can, but I'm not sure.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some good wheel cylinder replacements, maybe tell me what to look for. Am I correct that they are gonna be 37-41 Ford, maybe for truck only, or are they all the same? Also, any idea what the master cylinder is from and what to do about it, ie: replace or try to rebuild? Thanks for all the info, especially Robert!

 

Tire pics and flange, sorry got missed!

 

Also, maybe there's not a very good pic of the master cylinder, so here's one.

 

Oh Lord, I thought mine was bad. It definitely has the local track cool factor. Years ago my Brother and I had a pile of and one complete Model A powered sprint cars. One transmission was set up using a 1928 basket clutch and the other one was a "dog clutch" . That clutch was fun. Your monster needs a GMC engine. Big torque coming out of the turns.

 

I believe all 39-48 Ford car light truck the wheel cylinders are the same, there is a company in South Carolina that specializes in early Ford brakes.

I can get there in info when I get home, they are who I bought my shoes and hardware from. I was lucky I found N.O.S Ford wheel cylinders.

The. master cylinder appears to be a 52 and up 1960(?) car until, I think I have a brand new Wagner (N.O.S) unit, again I will check when I get home.

 

I built a pair of those wheels last year for display, (I need one more center to do the third wheel.) and mounted a set of modern Hurst recap on them.

Widened Buick rims stock Ford wide 5 centers machine work by family friend Jeff Hager.

 

Looking good!
I couldn't find anything current online about Hurst tires, only Towel City. Any more info on them?

 

Thanks for the info on the brake parts, looking forward to what you figure out later.

 

Hurst are out of business, I got a screaming deal on these.

I may not have the master cylinder any more. I now carried it to swap meets for about five years but then I found a 53 Ford headed to the crusher and pulled the pedal assembly. (Those pedals were popular when they converted an early Ford to swing pedals).

I know I bolted the master to the pedal assembly, I occurred to me I haven’t seen them in about a year and a half I may have sold them.

 

No worries. I think I found the place you were talking about in SC. Parts123.com

 

Early Ford V8 Sales-

Early Ford V8 Sales, Inc.

Brake parts-
https://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~partsort

I had brain fade on that one, it was long day at work!