Buying a car private party yesterday/today is a buyer beware deal IMO. Selling one today is a PIA, seems to me the buyer today wants a perfect car at a scrapyard price. Always put "sold as is" when sold car and I always tell buyer what he's getting including all faults and make it very clear it's not a perfect car as again IMO, no such thing with cars, using this method never had a buyer come back on one. I'm not in the car business, so the volume of vehicles involved is small, I am selling 2 old cars now and probably will put them at Gateway as I'm old, my BS tank is full, it's time to move on for me. Good luck with your sale, Be Sure you put " As Is, Where Is, No warranty Expressed or Implied" We live in different times today, honesty, integrity, coutesy, have became a rare commodity IMO.
After having to go to court by a jerk who sued me over a VW Rabbit I sold him broke heater hose and he overheated the motor. I had offered to replace the hoses before he took possession , but he declined saying he would take care of it. Luckily my friend was there to witness the sale. I got my revenge as the guy who sued me was selling dope from the convience store he owned . I called the drug hot line and they watched his place and he got busted. Since then it is a receipt stating as is no warranty. 2 copies one for me and one for the buyer signed by both of us. Protect yourself. Even if you win it very stressful to have to go to court over bullshit. Not to mention time off work and other expenses.
This is a little OT, but I sold a '64 Jag XK-E back in '73 after rebuilding the engine. For some reason I could never figure out why the oil pressure was just fine, but oil wasn't getting to the cylinder head. I sold it with a thorough disclaimer, and at a big loss, while thoroughly detailing the work done and the problem with upper-end lubrication. The guy assured me he was a master mechanic and it wouldn't be a problem for him. Two weeks later he wanted his money back, but I showed him the notarized disclaimer and his acknowledgment. Never learned whether he got the problem solved, but I was up front and honest with him.
You know Ray after rereading your post I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I believe you were saying that once you hand over the title. I read transfer the title into that and I do not believe that is what you meant. I also am of the understanding that most states once the title is signed and surrendered to the "Buyer" that the seller is absolved in responsibility to that vehicle as far as accidents etc. are concerned. The whole deal about the buyer coming back on the seller for one reason or another. If that happens that is on the seller for not having his ducks in a row. As the seller of a vehicle you "MUST" be completely honest, so honest it hurts. You also need to make it clear right up front that you are not going to be responsible for anything that goes wrong with the car once it crosses over your sidewalk. I do not sell many cars at all, I mostly buy the damn things, but if and when I do sell one I will make it painfully clear what I will and mostly what I will NOT do. After reading this thread I think I will now get that in writing.
Here in Bama, once the title is signed over, it belongs to the new owner. Not sure how that is handled on cars that don't require a title here, but I think it's the same thing, when they sign the bill of sale, it's theirs. Tags stay with the original owner with the exception of Vintage Vehicle or YOM tags, they go with the car. I always put on the bill of sale, sold where is, as is, no warranty implied. I do make two copies, one for them, one for me. Never had one try to come back on me.
In California, used vehicles (private party) are sold "AI IS", no need to even write it up. Once money changes hands, the deal is done and the buyer has no recourse. Only thing you need to do here is make sure the buyer is at least 18 years old, as a minor cannot legally enter a contract. I'm not a lawyer, didn't stay at Holiday Inn Express, but used to watch Judge Judy
This seems to be the problem with most things these days. Everybody wants something for nothing and no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. We have become a nation of morons. The last new car I bought, I traded in my old car even though I could have gotten more money from a private sale. I lost a few bucks, but will never have to worry about any hassles related to that car. Peace of mind is worth $$$.
Until he claims your 'unsafe' car was the proximate cause to his losing control and crashing. Some general tips: 1) Laws vary between jurisdictions. The "where is" part of a bill of sale is crucial. It determines which laws apply to the transaction, and where you'll be forced to defend litigation. 2) Don't get legal advice from Internet message boards. We all 'know' everything... except when we don't. 3) Excessive CYA is not a bad thing in 2018. If it's not in writing, there is very little to defend with.
I wouldn't chase a ghost. "As is" in the bill of sale. Just don't sell a car that is a piece of shit and not say.... It needs work or the brakes don't work.
I see you're in Minnesota, said to have "one of the strongest used car laws in the country". Used car dealers are required to warranty their cars. That sure sounds good, politicians looking out for the little guy right? I'm wondering is it really? At least I'm guessing there's some unintended consequences. Number one it seems logical that the average used car price at a lot would be relatively high. Guess what, that means the cost is passed on to ... the used car buyer. Duh. Anyhoo this may be one of those laws that only an idiot could come up with. I'll have to think on it. It sort of sounds good in a vague sort of way - probably somebody with their heart in the right place maybe, though can't do simple arithmetic.
Here in Washington state, every title has a tear off portion called "report of sale" . This assures that you are covered as a seller, the information on this document is ,the buyers name, date of sale and price of sale. The seller retains this and is sent to D M V with in 7 days.
When I sell a running,driving car to a local or in state buyer I explain to the buyer that payment is in cash,it's sold as is, and when he or she wants to pick up the car they better have their insurance information because the title will be transferred at my local DMV with me watching.Until the title is transferred they don't get the vehicle. Had "buyers" complain about it but either you do it my way or you aren't buying the car. I'm willing to take time off work to do it so should they.Completes the deal with my ass covered.Flippers hate it but reasonable people get it. They can drive away or trailer it and I know whatever happens I have no responsibility.
Actually Texas it is up to the seller to pull the tags and inspection sticker or let them go with the buyer. If you are lucky and have a signed 130-U on a sold vehicle that you did not remove the plates on and they don't register the car, you will get out of hundreds of dollars of unpaid tolls on the vehicle you sold. I did. I pull the tags on everything I sell and get the appropriate forms plus a bill of sale. Can't be sued with all the paperwork.(Actually can, but they will lose)
Hello, Our history of selling the 40 Ford Sedan Delivery, 58 Impala, El Caminos (2), 2nd 40 Delivery, our mother/father’s cars were all done with a signed pink slip release, a DMV waiver of liability, and a bill of sale stating the cost, condition of car and no responsibility of future events to the car. Yes, the waiver of liability by the DMV says almost the same, but when the buyer signs the hand written “Bill of Sale” paper, it seemed really official and permanent. Currently, a valid smog certificate is necessary. Back then, there was no requirement. A final odometer reading is listed on the pink slip or on a vehicle/vessel transfer and reassignment (form reg 262) We sold my mom’s 72 Chevy Nova 350 2 door in 1987 with only 18k miles on it. It was pristine, had all of the paper work, and the buyers still did not believe they were original miles for a 15 year old car. (of the 18k, my own family put on 3k miles on a vacation and my brother put on 5k on a Wyoming trip. So, if you subtract our 8k miles of use, my mom drove approximately 600+ miles a year. She was the “little old lady from …Long Beach”) A vehicle history report is common, but not necessary. If the car is pristine, this is a sales tool, too. When we bought a used, 2005 car in 2011, attached to the sales pitch was the vehicle history report. In reading that report, I could see what was done to the car since new. (The first owner, zero to 25k serviced and no problems. The second, serviced to 45k, again, no problems.) Https://www.dmv.org/vehicle-history/get-a-vehicle-history-report.php Jnaki We have been lucky, with all of the cars we have sold, they were all in great shape, maintained with daily upkeep, and were not in any accidents, except for door crush on the 65 El Camino during the college days. That was noted and pointed out to the new buyer. Most people who buy specific cars will note the condition and quality of the build. But, in this day and age of “liability conscious” people, it never hurts to have all of the local DMV paperwork complete and handy for the sale. If the sale is done during a weekday, go to the AAA office or the DMV office immediately, to turn in the “release of liability” form.
I always provide a simple bill of sale with the normal disclaimers, date it, state time of day, I sign it and have the buyer sign it. No grey area. I think, by having the buyer sign it stating that they read the BOS seals the "deal".
Years ago, rebuild/ built racing engines (4 cylinder Midget engines) side business to feed my racing hobby and had 2 standard warranty answers when asked. #1 When the door hits you in the ass on the way out, warranty has expired, #2 Guaranteed to be good as it is and last as long as it does. Only had 1 comeback, purchased a racing head assembly from a famous race engine shop, bolt on and go, did not double check everything as had bought these before, well shit, one of screw in studs was not tight, came loose, bent push rod, rocker fell off, dropped cylinder, driver shut it off. Monday morning get a phone call from a very unhappy wife of the man that purchased engine and yelling/screaming at me about my warranty comment and what was I going to do for them. Calmed her down, told them to bring engine in and I'll see what happened stating I will take care of it as I agree an engine should last longer than warm ups, problem happened in heat race. OK, get engine, find problem, correct, NO Charge and got my butt chewed again from wife when they picked up engine and let my car sit as I met them at their race track to babysit them for a night to appease poor guys wife, figured they were going to be short time race participants, fans, first time racers, Now we are at track, fast 1/2 mile dirt, had a good driver, runs great, help dial car in some, 2 nd quick, wins dash, heat, now feature time, all is forgiven as they are having the success/fun they wanted. Well, racing can be a Bitch, leading the feature, lapping a car, driver gets over lapped car wheel and goes for a very nasty ride, as bad as I've ever seen, driver OK, car junked, car broke in half at firewall, chassis clipped improperly my guess, on a following hit, breaks engine off motor plate, only time I have ever seen this ever. I felt so bad for these people as their introduction to be race car owners was as bad as it could be. I offered to fix engine as needed, no labor charge, just parts and suggested a car builder for chassis fix or new as needed. They were devastated, never heard from them or saw them at Midget races again, later in my time I owned/drove a winged Sprint Car for years and they came and talked with me after the races, He joked that he had the record for the shortest time as a race car owner ever and had to agree, it just was'nt meant to be for them.
As-is means As-is. UNTIL you make even the most minor repair due to a complaint. That repair you just made now signifies and implies that there is a warranty. DO NOT so much as change a tail light bulb! That is the situation here in WI. I am not trying to be sensational, nor am I trying to be a hard-ass (I don't have to try). This is a warning that I am repeating. This comes right from both DMV and the Dealer Association. IF you sell a vehicle without a warranty (As-is), DO NOT make even the smallest repair. If you do, you have implied a warranty and now you have opened up a gigantic can of worms.
^^^^^^^^^Bobwop is absolutely correct on this.....not merely in Wisconsin, but in many jurisdictions. You may take the chance and fix the minor item, but you have opened yourself to further claims. The irony is, the buyer, by demanding you ‘make good’ on something, has shown he/she feels they are not bound by the terms of the buy/sell agreement.However, they get pissed at you, the seller, for sticking to the terms. The real question is, what would they do if the situation were reversed? Shouldn’t be difficult to figure that one out......they will act in their own interest, every time. Ray
Bama, I would be careful about “ the car belongs to the new owner as soon as it’s signed over”. That’s kinda the way it is in Oklahoma, BUT, let’s say you sell a car, sign it over and even have a notary witness the signature. The new owner drives down the road, runs over a person, and puts a match to the title you just signed and witnessed. The court then has to go to the state records, and guess who owns the car ,legally, at the time of the accident? You! When I sell a car / bike I go with the new owner to have the title changed into his name at , in our state, the tag office. Then it’s his. A bill of sale with “ as its, etc” will also stop any recourse of the new owner as to any problems he has with the vehicle. Bones
All this legal bullshit makes the scrap yard much more attractive. What if after the transaction a meteor.......no a comet since it made of of ice....or more likely an ice missle from the Russians that causes temporary amnesia.......... Ok That's enough you get it. In Alabama the tag stays with the owner.....period. It used to transfer, no longer. I had to pay the City of Atlanta a $150.00 parking ticket at the Atlanta Iternational Airport for a vehicle (tag) I have not owned in 15 years. Alabama had done away with those type tags.....for years! Honestly, I still think it was a scam.....a legal scam by the city of Altanta. I had not been to Georgia in 15 years. It could have been one of two.....A 62 Ford Galaxie or.....A 54 GMC. The vehicle came back as a "Ford Truck". It was cheaper for me to just pay the damn thing rather than go to court. That's why I think it was scam. The tag # was mine but I could not remember which vehicle.....likely the GMC that went through at least two owners who never transferred it. Do you think I still had the notebook paper bill of sale 15 years later? Are you kidding? Oh....it was sold to a family member. You really need to keep records. Someone could have found the tag at the dump.......who knows?
Amen. I have several vehicles that I am done with and want to get rid of. The OT Jeep will probably rot into the ground because the value isn't equal to the bullshit exposure. The others are sitting, patiently waiting for me to compose the ad that will start the butthole circus. The current California "Certificate of Title" says, "I certify (or declare) under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the signature(s) below releases interest in the vehicle" Who knows what that really means or if it protects you in any way from a serious liability claim. In the envelope with the registration the State also sends you a form to fill out that advises the DMV that you sold it and to whom. That would be great but they have been known to lose or fail to process them and you still get correspondence about a car you sold twenty years ago. I usually do as has been stated before, take the buyer by the hand to the DMV or AAA and see that everything is transferred in real time. I guess that explains why I have so many of these old heaps sitting around.......
Fellas, even though I am among those posting 'warnings' about the pitfalls, it really isn't all that complicated. It just means to be aware of the exposure if the paperwork isn't complete. A proper title in hand, ensuring transfer to the buyer is made, a Bill of Sale stating the vehicle info, seller and buyer names addresses, etc., terms (As Is or ??) the date and time and signed by all parties. Ideally, a photo copy of the title, after it is filled out to buyer, should be retained by you along with a copy of of the BoS. If sold As Is, just be aware of concessions made after the transaction can affect the validity of the terms. Were I to make some 'adjustment' for an unsuspected problem, and I have and might again, I would likely want another written agreement stating the limitations of that concession. Having dealt with literally thousands of vehicle transactions over several decades (the vast majority 'commercially', but well over a hundred personal vehicles), I can say most people are not that difficult to deal with. The few that are is what one wants to be prepared for...and that is where proper paperwork is most important. I would also suggest that you, as a Buyer, should be equally thorough with the paperwork. Once the Seller has your money, the incentive to follow through is greatly diminished. The time involved in such paperwork really isn't all that lengthy or complicated. And the peace of mind is worth the little bit of extra effort. It also serves notice to the buyer/seller that you are no fool and 'know your stuff'. Ray
Not all of them has the tear-off; Washington state added this sometime after '81 as I still have some of the 'old style' titles without it. These required you to get a separate form from your local auditor's office to note the sale, which almost nobody did... and I wonder if those forms are even still available...
The report of sale form is usually attached to the title but I just picked one up from the auto club. Charlie Stephens
Obviously many states have different types of titles. But as Hnstray says, in every state, if you go to the place where titles are recorded, whatever it’s called, different things in different states and have the title changed in your presence to the buyers name, you should be safe. Any time between the new owner changing the title into his name and the sale, you are still the owner, according to the state. You may be able to prove sale with the little tear off or not, but to prove it , it would take some sort of legal action. I avoid taking that chance and go to the DMV with every sale and every purchase. That’s just me, I like to avoid trouble, and believe me I have had my share. Just my .02. Bones
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