Technical Discussion: Ardun Style Heads For a Cadillac Flathead

Jim probably has 65 some odd years worth of data to use against the 10 to 15 years they had back then.

 

I'm sure you're right!

I found this explanation when researching valve sizes and numbers:

"At standard temperature and pressure,equal numbers of molecules in any gas take up the same space. 22.4 liters of any gas, or mixture contain 6.22 x 10^23 molecules.

Exhaust has both more molecules and is hotter giving a higher pressure or volume. The engineers can only cram in so much valve area. Due to the pressure differences several have cited, they give more area to the intake.

Pressure x volume = number of molecules x R (a constant) x temperature

2 molecules of octane combines with 25 molecules of oxygen to yield 16 molecules of CO2 and 18 molecules of water. At the same temperature and pressure, it would have 1.26 times the volume of the original octane and oxygen."


So, one exhaust should work, partly because the because the exhaust pressure is higher.

Not sure this is totally true in a blown engine, but I think what Manche and Rich proposed will work!

 

Wow, I'm surprised at the interest in this! I can't believe the number of PM's and emails!

I'm contemplating either the Hemi 241 chamber, or a 4 valve setup. With the Hemi, I have a proven chamber design, but a complicated/expensive valve train to set up.

The other design is a 4 valve setup. The valve train will be easier to set up, and 4 valve chambers work well, although usually with OHC. Here is a very crude drawing of what I have in mind.

So, tell me what YOU think.

 

How would you deal with the resulting push-rod salad?

 

On the four-valve, intake is pretty straight on, and exhaust would have to 'reach' over the top of the intakes.

If I go Hemi, well, I'll just have to cross that bridge when the time comes!

FlatRoy, who makes my intakes, always tells me to "eat my elephant one bite at a time." I think that is the approach needed here.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA6t04tWtBI At 2:30 it shows a pretty simple way to operate 4 valves in a pushrod engine, just replace the injector with a spark-plug

 

That looks like a pretty good engine if they get the new Wendover Gold mine going good. Otherwise you might have to drive up 80 a little farther to Wells. Or maybe just run it on the UP tracks.

 

I've been looking at the Hemi heads. The pushrods come through the heads, between the centerlines of the intakes and exhaust, and the Caddy pushrods will be in nearly the same location! The factory Hemi pushrods are staggered, and the Caddy rods will be parallel.

Overall, I'm not sure you could get a better setup for a conversion. New rockers arms will be necessary, but I think the whole valve train can be utilized!

Guess we're gonna see!

 

I recently saw a flathead here in Denver that is getting a pair of 32 valve late model Caddy heads mounted to it. I know this is not what your doing, but I thought it was very interesting.

 

Interesting! Do you have any more info on it, or possibly any contact info?

 

Northstar v8?

 

I was thinking that if you used intake rockers simular to a nailhead Buick, that would lean the intake valves and ports ports back toward the lifter valley. And maybe Hemi exhaust rockers would give you the reach to make a good stagger valve head if not a true hemi. And line up with the flathead valve locations. Maybe.

 

You could consider using intake rockers similar to what was used on the Nailhead Buicks.

Damn Rich, Ya beat me to it...I need to type faster.

 

I searched, but can't find pics of these. Anyone have some?

I'm tellig ya, the Hemi head push rod setup is almost as perfect as you can get!

 

I think so. I'll try to find the guy's name that's doing the work, and see if it's OK with him to post it.

 

If it's not ok to post, please pass my contact info along to him, if you would.I'd love to talk with him!

 

Yeah, but. The Northstar is a DOHC engine. No help for XXO

 

Oh hell,how about knocking out some better heads and rods for the 331/365/390. Gotta be a lot bigger market.

 

For the pushrods, don't forget, Pontiac ran them through the intake ports on the RA5 motor and Mickey Thompson ran articulated pushrods with a guide tube in the head to get them around the ports on his Pontiac hemi heads.

Shawn

 

Obviously, you've missed the intent of doing this! I could care less about creating a market- I'm doing this for me!

Thanks, I'll check them out!

Right as usual Rich!

I'll still go loook at the setup, though, if given a chance!

 

As did Ford on the FE427 and 302 Tunnel Port.

 

I'm the one you PM.
I'm building a 1946 Lincoln V12 with home made Ardun style heads. I'm still working on the drawing for them, but I will show you what I did at first. I was going to make a modern style head that would work on the V12 with a origanal looking valve cover. After doing this I just didn't like it, what I really wanted was the real Ardun style.
The V12 is made on the same dimentions as a V8 60. So I located a set of Ardun style heads off of a V8 60 and took all the measurements off of that. So now I have all the valve train dimentions and cylinder head dimentions. I just add two more cylinders per side.

 

Ken, That's wicked cool! I appreciate you answering me!
Any idea when you'll get the heads done?

I sent you a PM.

 

All of this can be done. Ardun style heads for an old Caddy flatty are no problem. How much money ya got?

 

32 I can't help noticing your "Ardun" style heads are not hemi heads nor do they have the Ardun/Chrysler cross valve arrangement. The real Ardun V8-60 heads had a cross pushrod to a second exhaust rocker on a separate shaft. The V8-85 Ardun of course had the same short intake rocker, long exhaust. Your deal will be like those "Ardun" style heads sold to Model A guys, that have a Ardun style valve cover (85 not 60) but no other Ardun similarity's.

 

Like I said in my post, this was my first design that I wasn't happy with. I am making exact ardun heads.

 

Pretty confident I have enough to make this happen!
....and if you stck around, you'll see 'em!

Ken, care to post any models of your newest design?

 

Best of luck to you, that would be very cool.

 

So you did. I guess this is in conflict with my campaign to make everyone else improve their reading comprehension. I have never worked with Cad drawings. I seldom use drawings at all for my fooling around. When you make drawings such as those above, are they dimensioned to locate all the bolt and pushrod holes? So that you know where you have room for ports and not? Do the dimensions show? How does this work?

 

Ok, so once the heads are made what about the intake and carburetion???
Duane..