Hey all, I am at a crossroads. I have a 1952 Dodge B3-B pickup that I recently yanked the motor out of. It had a T142 (actually a B1-B engine from a '48-49 Dodge pickup) flathead 218 cid 6 cylinder, which I assume replaced the original motor at some point before my time (I know absolutely nothing about this truck's history). This last weekend, I bought a 230 cid inline 6, or at least that's what I was told, from a wrecking yard. It came out of a 1946-47 Dodge 1.5 ton truck (red flag number 1). The whole reason for purchasing it was because it had a Tattersfield twin carb intake that I was going to use on my 218. However, today I compared the exhaust manifolds between the 218 and the '230' and realized that the manifold from the '230' was about 2" longer. I was pretty upset that I had bought a motor for a part that I can't even use on my engine, but then I got to doing some research. After a bit of internet searching, I discovered that the motor that came out of the '47 1.5 ton was actually a C38 Chrysler 251 and not a Dodge 230. So here is my dilemma: Would it be a better decision to stick with my 218 (which is not numbers matching), or would it be cool to slap in the Chrysler 251 despite the engine mount/radiator positioning mods that would be necessary? I would like the truck to have a really old school style to it (it already has stacks, '36 Ford blue dot tail lights, and some other items) but I don't want to do something that wouldn't have been done back in the day. I really like the idea of running the twin carbs and having increased power, but I don't know if guys would have actually replaced a pickup engine for one that was actually older back in the day. Any insight would be great! It's a hard decision to make as of right now. Thanks!! Daniel
The 251 will have more power. Can you move the radiator forward a little? If so everything will fit. Trans should bolt up. What shape is the 251 internally? Check out the Pilothouse forum section of the P-15/d-24 website.
it was really common in Washington state area. Go fer it, And like the guys in Wa. State, " Yeah, I put a Chrysler in it" YEA RIGHT !!
To install the 251 the front motor mounts will need to be modified for the 2 inches forward position. I had to notch the front cross member for pan clearance in my 1953 B-3.
Thanks guys! I can definitely move the radiator forward. The core support has plenty of room for modification and I don't believe the hood geometry should conflict. Unfortunately, I have yet to determine the condition of the 251. First chance I get, I'm going to do a compression test to at least get an idea of how that thing is. I think putting it on a test stand and running it would be a good choice too. It's also great to hear that the engine swaps between Mopar flatheads were common. I will definitely check that forum out. Thanks BuiltFerComfort!! Verde742 - I'm glad to hear that. With what you and BuiltFerComfort mentioned, I feel I can change that motor without have to worry about ruining the style of my truck. Proartguy - That's good to know. I figured I'd have to change the motor mounts, but I hadn't thought about the front cross member. Great stuff! It seems like this engine swap is relatively common . . . . well, it is a Dodge after all so that alone makes it unique! I really appreciate your guys' input!
It really isn't quite installing an older engine in place of a newer one, at least not in configuration. Reason being, Mopar used a variety of the shorter 218/230 and the longer 250/265 (and a 236 variant of one of them, in DeSotos) in Plymouth, Dodge, Desoto and Chryslers, over many years. In Canadian produced cars, Mopar actually used the longer block in smaller displacements in Ply/Dodge models. There were 250 flathead engines in Dodge Power Wagons as late as at least 1968, and I think even a few years later. So, while the year of manufacture of your specific 250 may be earlier than your truck, it is the same as those manufactured long after.
The 251 is a good choice for a little extra power. As you already found out the Tattersfield intake will not fit the 218. A mild hop up on the 251 could include the 2 carbs, split exhaust for duals, reground cam, milled head for more compression. Should be good for 150 - 175 HP vs less than 100 for the stock engine. There isn't much to go wrong with the 251, they can usually be rebuilt several times during their working life and can be rebored up to 1/8" (.125). Here is an interesting story about a 251 in a 51 DeSoto Suburban 8 passenger sedan. Gives a good insight into the capabilities of the old flathead six. http://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html Vintage Power Wagons is a good source for parts. The engines are not difficult or expensive to rebuild.
Thank you guys very much! This is all really informative!! This information really helps put things in perspective.
While you will not find as many vintage or new for that matter speed parts for the long block flathead as the short block they are out there. If you want a finned aluminum head, Edgy Speed Shop http://edgyspeedshop.com/ is making new heads for both the long and short blocks and will regrind your cam for you as well.
Regarding the rad mounting: I have a '42 Fargo that has the longer block (25"). I picked up a spare rad in excellent shape at a swapmeet in WA. years ago. I remember when I got home comparing it to my original. I believe that all you would have to do to make it fit was to swap the mounting flanges from left to right/ right to left and reverse them back to front. It may be that easy on your truck.
Maybe not as cool as a hemi but why not dress up the long stroke 218. Mine runs great with dual webers, split exhaust, and hei ignition. And yes, I have added air.
Well, five years and a spun rear bearing later, I'm continuing? the story. I ultimately rebuilt the 218 and installed an Offy dual carb intake (like yours artr8) with twin Carter B1's. That motor ran like a top. Unfortunately, despite having good oil pressure, I managed to spin a rear bearing (I have my suspicions why) to the point the rear main cap and block were irreparable. So here we go again. This time around, I found a donor 230 out of a '52 Coronet. I've got a freshly ground mild cam from Elgin Cams to give it a touch more poop and a Borg Warner T5 needing installation. With some more blood, sweat, tears, and $$$$, this honey should purr once more. Sorry for the EXTREMELY delayed response. Don't like leaving "unfinished business".
@RatrodDodge .........thanks for the update. Sorry your rear main failed. Just curious to know why you chose not to use the larger cube Chrysler 251 five years ago? Ray
No brainer 251 with dual carbs, split exhaust manifold, milled or aluminum head. TOO COOL Talk to George Ashe or his son.
@Hnstray That's a good question. I ultimately decided that I wanted something that would bolt right in. While reworking the core support and scooting the radiator forward wasn't out of the question, it was going to take time (which was and still is scarce). That said (and this may appeal to you @Bert Kollar) there are a couple other projects in the family that would be great candidates for the 251. I haven't given up on it yet!
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