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Technical Does Steel Age?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Boneyard51, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. That ladle has about 230 tons of liquid steel in it. Not sure what the ladle wieghs but the crane is rated for 360 tons.
     
  2. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,367

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    A little useless trivia, but we calculated displacement of steel when drilling gas and oil wells, and came up with a little over 489 pounds per cubic foot.
     
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  3. 1946caddy
    Joined: Dec 18, 2013
    Posts: 2,314

    1946caddy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from washington

    I come to this site because I find my parts in fields, old barns, sheds, on line, and wrecking yards. When I loose faith in my ability to look at a part and not have confidence in being able to use those parts to complete a car that is safe and roadworthy, I"ll get a new hobby.
     
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  4. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 385

    BLACKNRED
    Member

  5. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 3,431

    slowmotion
    Member

    39 years in a steel mill. To simplify, the process is like baking a cake. Ingredients, method, and the cook all play a huge roll in the final outcome. Like people, some age differently than others, depending on many factors during their 'life'.
     
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  6. A part made from steel that is not subject to load cycling will probably outlast us all. This applies to any alloy of metal. I had some large brass and bronze punches that came from my grandfather's shop, they were probably 60 years old at the time in 1982. I took one of the brass ones and made a steering column bearing out of it for a stock car, once I cut through the bark, it machined like a new piece of brass. My '59 Ford just turned 60. I've had it apart, acid dipped the a-arms, spindles and just about anything that could be removed from the chassis. I looked over everything for cracks, heat stress, etc. Granted the car only had less than 81k miles on it at the time, everything was cleaned, painted and put back on the car. It will last another 60 years with some care.
     
  7. wicarnut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 9,176

    wicarnut
    Member

    The positive of all the old Ford forgings, steel in general, Henry had his own foundry and the quality was excellent, his spindles were used in racers for years, some still today in hot rods. today's import forgings, some good, some questionable as quality control still a factor IMO. on subject of wheels, the way they are used, yes they age from stress factors involved, if you had a NOS 1940 Ford wheel that's been stored in good controlled conditions, it will be as good as it was in 1940.
     
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  8. Ford was big on his proprietary alloys, good stuff then and still as good 80 years later.
     
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  9. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    There's a factor in steel stress, due to loading, called an Endurance Limit.
    Fatigue in repeated cyclic loads, can cause failure at lower stress values. When the cyclic load is below the endurance limit for the 'part' material I would be comfortable using it. Ford, Chev, etc. would only rarely have spindle failure, for example. The guys suggesting testing for old components are right. A good close inspection for cracks doesn't hurt.
     
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  10. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 2,161

    X-cpe

    My experience is that they both have a 5x41/2 bolt circle and use 1/2x20 studs. Ford uses a 13/16" wrench size lug nut and Mopar uses a 3/4" wrench size. I've never looked into whether there is any difference in the lug nut taper although I've heard there is. There are differences in the pilot hole diameters which can make swapping wheels between the makes difficult sometimes.
     
  11. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 10,251

    Rickybop
    Member

    Yes. Apparently so.
    I used to be made of steel. But I aged.
    Definitely some stress cracks too.
    Fatigue, don't cha know...
     
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  12. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,663

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

  13. jazz1
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,561

    jazz1
    Member

    I used to change a lot of springs on big trucks in cold weather,,,so it does become brittle in extreme cold. My first roadside spring job paid for my 3/4" drive set, never used air, it was a long time ago:D
     
  14. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,663

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I always wondered about this..

    [​IMG]

    A 1964 Ranchero was employed as a work truck at Goldfinger’s Aurik Stud Farm in Kentucky. It was finished in Dynasty Green metallic with a Palomino vinyl interior and was eqiuipped with white-sidewall tyres. Lack of V8 badging indicates it was powered by a 170 cubic inch (2.8 litre) or 200 cubic inch (3.3 litre) inline six.

    The script called for the Ranchero to transport the remains of a compacted Lincoln Continental containing $1 Million in gold bullion along with the corpse of the late Mr. Solo from the scrapyard back to Goldfinger’s compound. Unfortunately, the maximum payload of the 1964 Ranchero was only 800 lbs (363 kg).

    On the other hand, a 1964 Continental weighed in at 5,200 lbs (2,359 kg), and the gold (at 1964 pricing) would have added an additional 1,954 lbs (886 kg) for a total of 7,154 lbs (3,245 kg), nearly nine times the load capacity of the Ranchero.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,673

    oldiron 440
    Member

    That's one tough truck.:cool:
     
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  16. pirate
    Joined: Jun 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,196

    pirate
    Member
    from Alabama

    As slowmotion states steel is manufactured to a process (recipe) and there are literally hundreds of type of steel. Old steel or Henry’s steel doesn’t make it better or worse. It all comes down to was the proper type of steel selected for its given application. I would say steel produced today is probably better because the process is controlled so much closer with all the latest technology. The types of steels are determined by carbon content and other added elements (manganese, chromium, molybdenum, etc.) sometimes to tenths of one percent. Again it all goes back to selecting the right steel for it intended use.

    As far as aging (increase hardness and strength) there are very few steels that will naturally age at ambient temperature. Many of the low carbon steels cannot be aged ( increase hardness and strength) at all no matter what you do to it other then work hardening by bending which leads to fatigue failures. Most hardenable steels require heating to it’s critical temperature and quenching and then tempering (drawing) by heating to a specific temperature for desired strength and hardness and cooling at ambient room temperatures. There are several cast irons which age naturally and some aluminum alloys will age naturally after manufacture.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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  17. Aluminum will age-harden, it can be forced too, to occur a lot quicker. I've had aluminum I had to draw down so it could be machined and not do the funky chicken. Just letting it sit around for a few weeks had it coming back to a higher hardness, but not to the T6 condition it started at.
     
  18. The steel can become work hardened just like any piece of metal. If it ages we must ask our self about the million year old piece of ore that it was smelted from. :D :D :D

    Aside from Fatigue and pitting and cracking and the like I think the only real problem with old wheels is the fact that they are not safety wheels. Well that and they are not built to withstand the added stress that a radial tire puts on them over a bias ply.

    That said the front wheels on my Crosley will continue to be '40 Ford wheels. The rears will be different because of a rear end change but I am not going to change out my fronts. so next year they will be 80 years old.
     
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  19. pirate
    Joined: Jun 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,196

    pirate
    Member
    from Alabama

    Depending on the actual aluminum alloy artificial aging to T6 requires heating to approximately 980 degrees F and then quenching in water. This is called solution heat treatment or condition T4. The aluminum is then heated to 350 degrees F And held at temperature for approximately five hours and then allowed to cool to ambient room temperature. Temperatures will vary slightly for different aluminum alloys.
     

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