Projects "Don't buy a car in CA w/o a title"

I just talked over the phone with a DMV agent. I have a project car that I bought 15 years ago and I have no paperwork. All I have is a printout of the Craigslist ad. I gave them the VIN and "It's not in the system."

"So I can trailer my partially disassembled project car to DMV to get the VIN verified and I should have no problem getting it titled?"

"Correct."
----

Why do so many people say to not buy a car in CA without a title, if you can check that the VIN is clear, then get a title?

 

I bought one that way. Of course, ai drug it from San Diego back to Oklahoma. It will be substantially more work here to get it titled, but it is doable.

 

What year did you do that? They say that "CA DMV has made it harder to get a title in recent years."

 

Kansas recently updated theirs, anything over 40 years old just needs a bill of sale and if you have an old vehicle on your property with no title, then you just sell it from yourself to yourself with that bill of sale. I didn't even have to take the car there. I was reluctant to put alot of time and money into it until i got my title....


-rick

 

That's kind of cool. Do you know the company name / website?

 

"So I can trailer my partially disassembled project car to DMV to get the VIN verified and I should have no problem getting it titled?"

That hasn't been my experience. The DMV has not for me, EVER , vin verified a car that didn't drive there under its own power. I took several projects over the years, one was a desert derelict that had the bumpers off, the other two no drivetrains. No dice. Not to mention they don't want to climb on your trailer to check numbers. They're reliably lazy. On the one without the bumpers I asked...show me in your code book that it needs bumpers for you to be able to check the vin. They disappear inside...and never come back out. On the ones without drivetrains I asked..you don't check engine numbers anyway...whats the difference? Trying to be logical with a DMV employee will make your head explode.

Use a private vin verifier. They want to do the job for you instead of resisting work like the DMV.

 

Oh, I dunno. 2 years ago? I had them run it at the CA DMV and it had already dropped off. In Oklahoma it’s called Title 42. You have to do a storage lien for the owed fees.

It takes about 6 months, but my fees are about $500 day. Otherwise, once you post it in public places, it can be bought by anyone willing to pay the fees.

There are people that handle all of the DMV paperwork etc for you. Most either work at a tag agency or ex employees of the DMV. It will probably cost me about $250, but I don’t have to go to court etc. someone else’s problem.

 

Don't want to open this can of worms but the VIN needs to be verified. Without any supporting official docs the verification can't be done by a private title service or just any peace officer. So off to the DMV you go and they may or may not say you need to go to the CHP for the verification. If so, last I knew the CHP won't verify less than complete vehicles. When I bought my Ranch Wagon it had no title only a bill of sale BUT it had a 1972 registration card which matched the VIN on the body. I had a private title service come to my house, verify the VIN, and complete all the paperwork. Several weeks later I got the CA title (pink slip) So yes it can be done. Sometimes smoothly and other times not so much. And remember when dealing with the DMV and/or the CHP attitude is everything. Good luck. Hope it goes smoothly for you.

 

Every state is different but even that hulk that has sat beside the falling down barn on the farm that looks long abandoned on the dirt road is still someone else's property unless you legally obtain it.

This state is pretty easy for the most part requiring proof of ownership of the major parts and pieces when you take it to the state patrol inspector. If you have a fabricated chassis aka tube frame or obviously recently welded together frame you have to have it welded by a certified welder or inspected and signed off by one. Too much stuff thrown together with crappy welds falling apart is what the inspector told me.
Proof of ownership means keeping bills of sale and receipts for major components. They don't care about that 300 bucks worth of stainless bolts or those 400 dollar valve covers but want to know that you legally obtained the frame, body, engine transmission and rear end. For many of us that might mean a photo copy of the title to the donor car and the paperwork from the scrap yard when we hauled the hulk over the scales and gave them the title on the engine and drivetrain. I bought it with title, stripped the parts and sold the hulk with the title end of story.

Still one needs to do their homework for what their home state requires before ever spending a dime on a not title rig. Being clueless as to what your state requires or allows is not an excuse after you spent a bunch of money. This crap has gone on for years. A guy buys a no title car or truck doesn't get a bill of sale or hides it so his wife doesn't find out what he spent, buys an engine from some guy who had it on Craigslist as a rebuildable core with no bill of sale, spends 4 k on the engine rebuilding it, spends 1 K on the transmission that he did get a receipt for from the wrecking yard and didn't get any paper work for the rear end that he bought off FB market place. You have to have that paperwork.

 

Does "in the system" mean it hasn't been reported stolen? If so, what had happened to your project car if it was in the system? I don't buy cars without titles...clean titles. But that is just how I do business. My money, my rules. I don't make rules for others to follow. That is what Governments and wives are for.

 

If you're in Nor Cal, call Angela at North Bay Vehicle Registration Services (707) 577-8277. Not sure if she can do much if you don't have a current title, but can see a VIN on the chassis. For me, she can come to verify the VIN, fill out all the paperwork, and brought me my new registration and plates. Title followed in the mail. I've used her for both of my cars. I think she charged me $120 for the roadster. She just looked at the VIN number on the engine block and checked it against the MT title. The engine was not original to the car, but someone had the foresight to stamp the number in the block. I've never been able to find a VIN on the frame.
If you're not in Nor Cal, just look up VIN Verification Services in Yelp and see what pops up in your area.

 

So my understanding in Ca is a stolen vehicle never goes “out of the system”.
@gimpyshotrods can most likely confirm or deny this.
Used to be back fees on say something that was “out of the system” never followed then VIN/SN.
But DMV is much more sophisticated now, all on computers and data bases, etc.

So what was purchased 15 years ago may have been “out of the system” 10 years before ie.
So if the VIN comes back good, no late fees, etc, you’re golden.
But if something pops up, the $$ are on yourself to get it corrected.
I understand there are some ways around the fees, @Atomic Reverend Alexander did let me know at one time his solution, but I don’t want to speak for him.

 

If I understand this correctly, you do not have an ownership/title and you also have zero proof (bill of sale) proving that you legally bought it 15 years ago, the only "documentation" you have is a copy of the ad from 15 years ago and you are now willing to trust some voice on the phone that said "no problem, come on in and we'll issue you a title" At the very least, they must surely require an affidavit swearing you bought it legally.

I am not suggesting you are making this story up but I personally wouldn't be in any rush to celebrate your title acquisition until it actually happens THEN you can tell us all how easy it was

 

Correct. Stolen vehicles NEVER leave the system, unless they are recovered and scrapped.

If you come across something out of the system, there are no back fees, but CHP will need to inspect it, if there are no supporting documents.

 

No. It needs to be a complete vehicle, and it will need to go to CHP, with an appointment.

 

Private verifiers are not permitted to inspect the numbers on vehicles without supporting documents.

Only CHP can do that.

 

Down the street from me is a dealer that sells classic cars, hot rods, street rods, etc. The have an inhouse VIN verifier and DMV registration services. Went in and within 15 minutes I was walking out with transferred title and new plates. The fees were $65 but I'll gladly pay that for time saved and free from .headache.

 

"Without any supporting official docs the verification can't be done by a private title service or just any peace officer. "

I think CA DMV tried changing the rules to that
..but all it ended up doing is inundating the CHP with vin verifications. The CHP complained im sure. I don't think they changed the rule back...just don't think they're following it. I've had private vin verifications since then.

 

Good that.

I gave up being a private verifier because of that rule.

 

I don't know. At a minimum, I think it means that it has no back fees due. I assume that their computer system would check if it's reported stolen in CA. I would think that it also checks on a federal level, like CODIS for DNA.

It was setting on their property for at least 10 years, according to the ad.

I think it's extremely unlikely that an issue is going to arise after getting a VIN clearance.

Calling was step one. The main theme of this thread is that there are plenty of warnings on the HAMB of "Don't buy a car in CA without a title" and "Don't do anything to it till you have it titled." So, with this small but probably significant step done, I'm wondering why people say that. If someone wants to buy a car with no title, get the VIN, check if the VIN is clear, and supposedly it can be titled cheaply and easily.

What constitutes a complete vehicle?

Getting a car to "complete vehicle" status goes against the usual recommendation of "Don't do anything to it till you have it titled." I don't want to spend/waste even the less than $100 to rent a trailer to take it to DMV and/or CHP if it has to be a complete vehicle. I just want it titled, not registered (and insured) to drive.

 

California is easy to get a title for a car like that... take it to a CHP office (call ahead) or call your local PD or CHP to ask if they will come to your house, OR, go to a DMV service... have them verify the VIN, fill out a statement of facts, tell em you paid $100 for it 15 years ago and it's been sitting since then, and walk out with your plates for under a couple hundred bucks.

FWIW, I buy and sell cars all of the time, and will have my DMV service check the VIN TO MAKE SURE IT IS OUT OF THE SYSTEM first... this is the best scenario, when it has no paperwork and is NOT in the system.

 

It was $75 and they helped me (for hours) load it onto a trailer when it had no rear end in it. I think we also pulled the engine (no trans) and put it in the back of my 4Runner. I gave them a whopping extra $25 for the help, so it was $100.

 

I'm thinking that the next step is to take a few pictures of it with it the way it is, show them at DMV, and see what they say about getting the VIN verified. If they're sure that I'll be able to get it titled, I can start working on getting it going- I don't need a title for it setting and working on it. Again, one common response has me very hesitant to get started on it without a title.

 

Always look in the glove compartment for old CA reg cards , they are extremely helpful.

 

Here, when one gets parked, it belongs to the land owner after a period of time, six months I think. There is no back fees due, fees are only paid when it's being used on a public roadway. So that old truck that was sitting behind the barn when Uncle Roger bought the property 20 years ago belongs to Uncle Roger. That six month period is for the owner to come and get it, if they fail to do so, ownership passes to the landowner. They have forms you can fill out to take possession, but nobody uses them except maybe wrecker companies and shops.

 

California changed the rules years ago, I bought the parts Hillman in September and they changed in December (or something like that). It’s a lot harder now, it needs to be complete and you have to go the bonded route.

 

Interesting. That goes against one common response.

 

my favorite VIN story is a guy at a swap meet looking for a clean title for a Model A. I happened to have a title for a Model A with a non-op and black and yellow California plates attached that came with a rolling 1923 T HOT ROD built in the 60's.. the guy told me the VIN on his original Model A was already being used!

 

The term complete vehicle is not defined in the law.

It is at the inspector's discretion.

 

And using your VIN on his car is a Federal felony.