Those guy are like Mopar Maniacs,,use the see there winged cars round Mount Holly and Burlington,, So 1995 is when the said no more ?
One thing that has been omitted from the "LOOK" is having the motor down in the cars like in the 1960s. For you new tire biters, that is the motor with the front angled down aka "Dump in the Motor or Tampa Dump". Depending on the pinion height, tire diameter, how far the motorplate is from the centerline of the rearaxle (motor out), transmission and oil pan clearance will determine the angle of the driveline. I asked Kent Fuller how he came up with the motor dump angle ? He said "Set up the driveline with the motor & slicks, bottom pulley on the crank and put a layed down 2 x 4 under the bottom pulley". OK ! He said this with a straight face. My motor is 6 degrees down, 21'' out, direct drive, 8 3/4 Mopar rearend on 31'' slicks and the chassis to ground clearence is 3 1/2'' at the motorplate. I didn't use the Fuller method. If you want "THE LOOK", it is all in the final results.
There are some great, insightful posts on this subject already here, but there is one basic point that should be remembered. The initial question had to do with 1958-1962 Chassis Research, Lyndwood and Dragmaster styled chassis. All the terrific new cars that have been shown, by some of the top builders here on the HAMB, are basically 1967-1971 designs with 5 or 6 point cages. It is my opinion that if a guy wants a '58-'62 styled car, it cannot be upgraded to meet current safety specks without totally changing the design, feel and "look" of the early cars. With that said, anyone who wants to build a FED to run and not just cackle or display, needs to commit to the late 60's style cars.
The older big tube cars and square ones should be able to be built and pass ,,The thin tube mid 60's cars I would think are harder
Thanks for the kind words, I'm honored to be in such exclusive company but I'm just a hack with a dream. It'd really take something for me to build at the level of the other guys. One thing I haven't heard much of are the goals guys are chassing here. Folks keep talking about safety and rightly so, but if the car is running 9's instead of 6's, shouldn't that have some bearing? Just a thought.
One thing I haven't heard much of are the goals guys are chassing here. Folks keep talking about safety and rightly so, but if the car is running 9's instead of 6's, shouldn't that have some bearing? Just a thought.[/QUOTE] true.... u have to know the limits of the car. im looking at 9's with an unblown sbc...not a nitro hemi..... thats a whole new ballgame
yes,,,seems when you say "dragster" people assume nitro hemi cyco motor. nice 10-11 second ( maybe 9 ) old style dragster suits my needs just right,,of course the whole idea is to go FAST,,but I know I would'nt feel comfortable or safe in one of the older cars at some insane speed... Think alot of times Dragster gets lost in the meaning and the years of evolution There are limitations too all frame engine combinations,,I think know that and knowing when to not cross that line so to speak makes all the difference in teh world also look at it,,in the evolution of teh whole thing the frames got thinner and the motors bigger and or more of them,,which had many fatal flaws and hence a pressing need for stricter rules and safety features This frame is 3 inch OD main tubes and most of the rest 1 3/4 od,,using a proper motor this car should still be considered safe How anything like this was allowed to run I have no idea ??
I'm with Riceman on dump. I'm was looking for that transition period between some of the earlier cars and later ones. Style but simple and kinda square. My engine does sit further forword than I like but certainly not as bad as Sneaky Pete's dragmaster and a few others. I gave her enough dive so the lines of the engine nearly match the top frame rail. It's gonna be REALLY tight for the bottom row of header bolts but it will clear. I love dive!
I built mine with the .120 mild steel. Heavy as heck compared to 4130 but solid as a rock. I've had a bunch of folks explain why mild steel is a bad idea but again, I'm not looking to be the fastest thing on the track and I don't have to worry about it work hardening. The word dragster certainly does conjure up different images for different folks.
Potvin Dug Peterson from Lodi, Ca runs a legal early 1960s type chassis complete with a dropped 32 drilled front axle, injected 392, weedburners and large diameter chassis tubes. it runs 8.60s Pictures later. Kerry's car and Potvin Dug cars are good examples of legal old style dragsters.
The proper asthetic is something I spend alot of time pondering. Example, the car I'm currently building (They Said It Coulden't Be Done" thread) is not something that was ever seen during the glory days, but at the same time, I feel it's important to capture the right look, feel and attitude. I am way overbuilding the car as far as current SFI standards are concerned, but at the same time, I'm going to great lengths to keep the right asthetic. Organic shapes, bare, open areas...cleanly laid out mechanicals...you get the idea. My cage will be SFI, but it will be all single bend and laid back, and as low as possible. In my opinion, this is the one area that is completely overlooked with todays retro-racers. Drag Racing, when it's done correctly is every bit art as it is competition. It was that mindset that was crushed during corporatization of our sport in the mid 70's that made the early days so beautiful. For the life of me, I can't understand how the modern T/F car can be so visually ghastly, and everybody just accepts it as the way it is. All of the modern equippment that these cars are legislated to carry can all be integrated into a very pleasing and traditional form if that is the goal from the beginning of construction. Example...On the altered I'm building, the space between the main chassis and body is where the firebottles and puke tanks will be housed. Visually, there will be no clue that this car is from the modern era unless somebody bothers to actually count the hoops on the rollcage. This same concept can be taken with a digger...mounting the bottles under the rear axle (great place for ballast anyway)...and the rollcage and puke tank can be tucked under a simple tailpiece. And what's with the narrow tripod front ends on these things?...I've been around drag cars for better than 30 years, and I still can't comprehend the necessity of that. The classic slingshot shape has the engine, tires and rollcage as the three focol points of the rear of the car...this balances and contrasts with the long, spindly front end and wheels. The shape is very organic and actually very female in nature. Think of it as skinny ankles and long legs with an ample bust and a head above it all...where it all belongs. The low, tight bikini body that most cars wore back then amplified this shape. This is the form that made those cars beautiful to our subconcious. Todays cars have none of these elements in proper perportion, and the result is a machine that is literally uncomfortable to look at. Study pictures, and see what I mean. The asthetics of drag racing during the 60's is one of the main things that drew the general non-automotive public into it and helped fill the stands. If we're ever going to help recreate that atmosphere...and the cash that goes with it...we, as a group really need to focus on what looks and feel right.
Perfect comments. I won't build a front motor car with a tripod front end 'cause it just does not look right. I really prefer to use a five point cage too for the same reason. As for motor angle, I really like a big dump but in the interest of making the car work I quite often end up with the motor nearly level. My '69 Don Long car has the motor level so I can live with that scenario. I don't do bodies with a lower turnout lip and prefer to use a rounded cowl with a big radius curve up to the windshield--look at the pix that I posted earlier for reference. Roo
Aww, probably about a 67. Whats left of it. I believe the front axle, torsion tube and radius rods and front wheels are original. And a few small pieces. Lippy
Keith, your a very talented chassis guy. What are your thoughts on the early dragmaster, 440 type chassis, and making a modern version that would be safer if possible. Lippy
Yep ... what he said. Ultimately, anyone should be able to build what they want as long as it's safe. However, when you're talkin' about recreating the feel and the look (the full essence) of a golden age 60s dragster, you cannot ignore the LOOK. The rails of 1963 - 1967 were generally works of art. They were sleek looking ... they had beautifully designed bodies with tasteful paint schemes. The roll cages were swept back to complete the sleekness. One of the aesthetic considerations Tommy Ivo talked about regarding one of his cars was having the headers sweep back at exactly the same angle as the roll cage. I mean ... we're talkin' about lookin' good as well as goin' fast! It seems to me that modern FEDs can look virtually the same as a classic 60s version if that's desired. The driver can still sit low (lower than most that you see nowdays). The roll cage system doesn't have to be squared off and ungraceful looking just because it's 6 point (look at the King Chassis 1966 legal version ... it's very graceful and sleek looking). All of the other safety additions to make the car "legal" can be hidden by the body or obscured by styling. One last thing. Second to the roll cage, what always catches my eye on a modern front engine rail is the angle of the engine (on blown or injected cars). Nearly all of these cars do not have the engine angled downward (dumped) in the front like they use to do in the mid 60s. I know that is old school thinking and not necessarily relevent today, but it SO completes the look. Well, sorry if I ran on too long ... but this is a fun and interesting topic. I'm anxious to see what others are going to say.
WhitePunk, excellent response! I wished I'd caught it before I posted my last statement. Yes Sir, great insight ... BRAVO!
Ya know after reading all of the post to date I can pertty much tell how old most of you are, Well guys I was there through the entire 60s and i was racing at lions Dragstrip ( Home Track)as well as San Gabril,Fontania,sanfernando and the like I remember the first time I saw Grear,Black,Perdone, car and I have alwayes wanted that body style it look like a big blue tear drop but Don would haft to turn sidewayes to get in and out of it, but I digress I drove a Candy Red FMD for U.S. Speed & Sports out of Norwalk ,CA As far a Chassis I remember at Lions When Bid Daddy was on tour after winning the Nationals in the early 60s in those day you could walk right up to the Dragsters and touch them and Bob Fletcher was the guy I race for at U.S. Speed & Sports he said (just casually) put a quarter between my finger and my thum and tap on the cage of Big's Car and lessen to the sound the stub would sound Klank and the exhaust would ping, What Bob Knew is Big had welded an inspection stub in the top of the cage and the rest was exhaust tubing if you would stand and look at in the light just right you could see were is had been welded in and ground down smooth. In those days they didnt have Sonic equip they just drill a small inspection hole and a hook gauge to measure the thickness of the material, I have had my Bell Rung a couple of time before and if I was afraid I would have quit racing a long time ago. My point is build the car that best shows who you are not what someone else wants you to be . im inclined to agree with King Chassis do what feels right to you. Bud
Bub. u gona be at the hamb drags again this year. id like to talk with you and look at your rail alittle closer if its cool. i hope to have the bugs out of my alterd by then.james
James Well I am not sure right now, last year the Heat Got to me big time. But if I do I will be looking for cool big time I can't take the heat much anymore. And sure if I do make it be glad to help you all I can I have a Blown S/B for the car but I prob won't get it in the car this year . My Rear Motor car I havent had started in over 2 years. Here is a pic of it when I Lived out west. Bud I ran Super E out there in the 7s , this motor is the s/b I was going to put in my FMD I now have a B/B in the RMD. I don't hurry much anymore after 50 years on Drag Racing and pushing 69 yr old lol
Rooman, Pat Foster did a pass on the Jade Grenade FED Don Long car Redo. The motor is 2 degrees down and ran a 1.06 60 ft and clicked it at 660 ft with a 4.03. Pat said, " That bitch would have run a 5 !"
looking to go in this type of direction.... love the nitro burners , but out of my league.... stolen pic from http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297153&highlight=salinas+dragster
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