Dragster Guys - Trailer questions (again)

Guys it looks like I am gonna end up building a trailer for the dragster. So far I have decided on torsion axles (10 deg up) to keep the deck sorta low as a result of my limited ground clearance. The car is roughly 180" wheel base. I have enertained thoughts of making the trailer tilt much like a boat trailer to easy loading/unloading - or building a little tilt into it from teh get go. I would origionally have to have it open, but would like to leave the possibility to enclose it later. Should I do THAT it would still be smallish like a "Mr. Ed" deal.

So my question is basically this: If you were gonna build a trailer - what features are really killer to have - what neat things would you consider "must have" or even "like to have".

I have looked over the BankAmericar trailer on the "roadsters" website http://www.americanroadster.com/bankAmericar_trailer.htm and will admittedly be using that as a basic plan, but wanted to tap the brain power of the HAMB to see what ADDITIONAL neat stuff would be nice to have.

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

We borrowed an enclosed trailer,one weekend,built by another driver.HE figured 72" vertical clearance inside was plenty.

And if was,if you are a short ***.

Of course,I go running into the trailer for something
right before a race,and banged my ****ing head.
Not amused.

The stupid part was,I knew the trailer was too short,because I was supposed to help the guy who built it.He insisted on making it too short,so i let him do all the work himself.

So my point is: if you build an enclosed trailer,make sure it has plenty of head room.

 

Also,check the laws on trailer width.

 

"Laws on trailer width" to be honest with you - THAT never even crossed my mind. I'd like to build mine slightly on the narrow side - do the laws dictate the "narrow" end of the spectrum - or just the "wide" end of things-. Clearly I'll have to dig into this further.

As for height - I live in the city - it'll be more of a problem than you know. That's one reason why it will initially just be open.

C'Mon guys there's got to be a bunch of those little annoying things that'd you change if you could - help a fledgling brother out!!!

 

I recently put a winch on my trailer. I've used it about 3 times and never want to see a come along again. It rocks. Mine is set up with a dedicated battery that charges as I drive, but using the trucks battery would work too.

 

well,an open trailer with a old car or old race car still kicks ***,your width on a open onley needs to be wide enough for the dragster,so you wouldnt need a almost 8 feet wide trailer,and being its a dragster,ever consider aluminum loading ramps,with the lighter dragster ,your thinking of a lower height trailer,should work out good,plus you can move your axles farther back so the *** end of the low trailer doesnt drag to bad

 

Electric tongue jack, use same battery as the winch, as Crusty Nut suggested. Unhook trailer from ball, raise front of trailer, one long ramp, low dragster no problem. Might need something for the back of the trailer to rest on if it is real light.

Craig

 

I have a f.e.d. and built a trailer for it a few weeks ago. But just put the car on there tonight for the first time. I built mine to go on backward. I like tounge weight while towing. I also got a torsion axle. And I wanted a 10 degree up, but in my narrow width (54" hub to hub, I think). There was only a 30 degree down. Which made the deck 19" off the ground. Which I think is too high. But the runners on the tail of the trailer are only a couple of inches off the ground while backing up my driveway that is up hill. Mine tilts also. And works almost perfect. Works perfect rolling off but pops up while backing the car on the trailer. And that is remedied by having a friend stand on the end of the trailer while loading. Hey I am not a engineer! But I am happy with the way it turned out. I was supprised on how axle location plays a giant part of the tilt. I wanted the wheels to be just in front of the motor for weight reasons. To test my theory I placed rollable weight on the trailer deck, then pulled the tilt pin out, rolled the weight back 6'' and the trailer tilted. Then I thought it would look better with the wheels 12" further back, so I cut my tack welds loose moved the axle back 12''. Well with the wheels moved back just 12", the trailer would not tilt till I moved the weight 4 feet back! So cut it loose again and moved the axle back to the orginal spot. Tomorrow is maided trip down the road with the car on there. Got my fingers crossed. The Pictures with the car on the trailer I just took. And it is jacked up with the torsion relaxed, because I am gettin new tires tomorrow and just leaned the wheel against it for the photo. I am not totally happy with how high it sits but least i won't have to worry about draging while backing up many places. While the trailer was empty I took it down the highway and it tracked great . I will give up date tomorrow after towing withe the car on it.

 

I've built trailers in several states and 8' total width was the max. and I believe that is the standard everywhere as that is the limit on tractor trailers also. Personally, I would build the trailer to the max as then if you want to haul something else you can. Moving the axle(s) back is not always a good idea (unless you like white knuckle rides watching the trailer alternate between side mirrors ) too much or too little tongue weight will lead to that, so you want to keep proper tongue weight when fully loaded. I've found building in some axle adjustability (ala tractor trailers) helps a lot with odd weighted loads and dialing in a straight tracking trailer. JMHO

 

conduit to protect the wire's also stainless studs welded to the frame for the grounds. i've also heard some bs that the dot is pushing for brakes on trailers??? keep it low and light.

 

You can probably build up to 102" (8'6") maximum width; that's what is allowed on the highways without permits for a "Wide Load". Check your state regulations for trailers - many REQUIRE brakes on at least one axle, and many require a break-away activation system. Provide space for a spare tire/wheel, tire-changing tools, chocks, tie-down storage, etc. It's always a PITA to have to load/unload this stuff every time you use the trailer. Make sure you have legal/adequate lighting - in addition, perhaps a big bus-style STOP light that'll attach to the back of the digger (when loaded) to provide a highly visible warning to the tailgating m***es.

 

There was a discussion on the v8buick site about car haulers and two of guys have trailers with NO suspension. I can't see any advantage of that other than a low deck hieght. Just don't seem right to me, but with that torsion axle of yours its a mute point. (you going to the cinematic ? )

 

If you're thinking of converting to an enclosed trailer later on, why not try and find a wrecked car or house trailer?
Run it open for a while and enclose it later.

You can get some good ideas on construction of the top and sides framework as well as the frame proper by visiting the Haulmark Trailers site.
They have some exploded/phantom views.

My 7000# gross box trailer with torsion axles works great.
Tows well empty or at gross weight.

If you're doing an open trailer use long ramps for low cars.
6' does it a lot of times, but for some 8' would be better.
You can find some nice ramps at metal salvage yards that handle aluminum.
I got a pair of six footers for my open tandem trailer.
They were 18" wide and that was a really nice feature.
Originally they were a deck plate at a generating plant or the like.
That meant they already had the 3/8" angle aluminum welded to the 3/16" aluminum diamond plate upper surface.
Only thing needed was a piece of aluminum channel bolted to the front to adapt the ramps to the welded steel tubes & flat plate that adapted to the rear of the trailer.

If you have a tandem axle trailer put brakes on both axles.
My tandem had single axle brakes and did ok most times, but one emergency stop had the wheels locked up and it seemed the trailer brakes weren't contributing anything to the stopping process.
The 20' - inside measurement - box trailer I have now stops way better than the single brake tandem ever did.

Do put a winch on the trailer.
I pulled a 39 Ford up on my tandem with a two ton hoist.
Took a heckuva lot of time and was a pain in the backside.

The pics below show my tandem with a 1600# boat trailer winch installed.
Pulled a full size 50 Plymouth on board with no probs.
The 2nd pic shows the ramps although running them vertical is not a good idea.
There's a lot of wind drag with the wide ramps up like that.
Way more than you would think.
For highway travel, I ended up carrying them flat on the deck, under the car, retained with one bolt - mit nylock nut.

The interior pic of the enclosed trailer shows an 1800# boat winch.
It drags the dead runners up with no problems and it doesn't take long to do it.

Surprisingly, the boat trailer winches aren't very expensive.
About $30. - $36. each and the flat nylon strap on the tandem's winch and steel cable on the box trailer's winch were under $10. if I remember right.
Keep a ****** block on board either trailer.

Add some full strength flush tie-down rings to the enclosed trailer.
Mine has 8 of them as well as tie-down eyes in several locations where you won't trip over them.
There's also another 4 flush tie-down rings - not rated as high as the car tie-downs - installed.
They were a tremendous aid when moving the shop as well as when moving the roadsters, welding steel etc.

If you get a box trailer or convert to one, leave enough room for a potty room in the corner.
Build it light and there's not much weight added.
The potty room is convenient and if nothing else the women in your life will love you for it....

 

One thing you guys with a flexy dragster ch***is may want to look at is some method of snubbing the flex for trailering. One method I've used was an inner tube under the ch***is with a strap over the top. A dragster can take a beating while towing. I've heard several stories of ch***is breaking while being transported.

 

I use a fully enclosed 24 foot trailer for a show car. Electric winch with dedicated battery is good for standby, but I generally just drive into the trailer. PITA to store the trailer; have it at an RV/Boat storage place for 40 bucks a month. Bright exterior lights in back and front are a plus if nightime sets in (just get some good 12 driving lights, wire it to a switch inside the trailer. I've often thought about air conditioner, generator, and fold-down awning, but I'm never in the trailer long enough to use those things. In vest in good tires; don't get the cheapest available, and carry a spare along with one of those cheapie 50 dollar hydraulic jacks from WalMart. That puppy saved my **** on more than one occasion. A tongue weight scale is usefull, but you generally use it once. Tongue weight should be 10% of the weight of trailer and load....don't know if you will know either of those weights, but 300 lbs would be about right. By all means, install a hydraulic or electric brake system. You'll wish you did on your first panic stop...people on freeways are idiots. Don't skimp on your hitch system either, and make sure to incorporate an anti-sway device to keep the trailer from swaying back and forth at certain speeds. Anyway, experience will tell you what you need. Hopefully you have a full-size truck or similar tow vehicle. Small/medium size SUV's (or cars) have too short of a wheel base, and you'll have a hard time controlling the trailer. Is you tow vehicle automatic? Does it have a tow package? If so, there is a ****on for tow/haul, if not, keep it in 3rd gear during the tow and don't use cruise control. If you expect to be towing often, a transmission cooler would be a good idea, otherwise you're wear out the ****** pre-maturely...but you'll probably do that anyway. The lightest trailer you can build would be the best, but aluminum is expensive. Personally, I'd look for a good used trailer rather than buying one, otherwise you are going to drop the same amount of money (and effort) on building something that may or may not work.
My 2 sense.

Good Luck

 

Some really GREAT stuff here guys!!!! I'm pretty much given up on finding a suitable trailer. I'm sure that since I have axles coming that I'll now find a jillion of them, but I've been keeping an eye out for a while now and nothing came of it. I did look at some boat trailers that appeared close enough to modify, but they sat kinda tall, usually had juice brakes (I want electric) so I just got tired of searching and embraced the idea of building. With enough good advice here I have no doubt whatever I come up with will work just fine (fingers crossed). I'll sketch it out on the computer and place the axles once I get the motor back in the car so I can figure out the Center of Gravity.

I REALLY appreciate the help - and if ya think of anythign else - please don't hesitate to post. It ALL gets me to thinking!!!


Oh BTW - for the question on my TOW Vehicle - it's a 1947 Ford 1/2 Ton Pickup. 392 Hemi, Push****on Trans, and freshly installed 9". 11-1/2" disc brakes with a power booster. Stock I beam.

 

An open trailer is ok, but if you're gonna park at a motel overnight an enclosed trailer is the way to go.

I was especially appreciative of mine when I moved the shop.
Lots of neat-o stuff in tool boxes, milk crates and the like.
Nuff said there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

McLoad, I use 3rd gear of an OD auto trans for towing, but I'm curous as to why you recommend against using a cruise control?

Mine worked well for most of the trip, but it helps to turn it off before you hit the long grades and get a little extra speed on.

I like it off when going down grade as well.

 

Took the trailer down the road today with the car on it. It tracked perfect. And pulled nice. Couldn't even tell it was back there. I shure am happy about that. I was worried that it would drift bad. Success.

 

King, Are you bringing your rail to the HAMB Drags?

 

That is my plan. Although I still dont have my clutch back or a coupler. And I am broke. Shure hate to bring a race car to a race track and not be able to make it move on its own. But I am a trying. I work on it every day and spend money on it every day. I am shure you all know that drill.

 

I think an enclosed trailer is a good thing for security purposes and adverse weather but.............I think you lose a lot of the coolness of having an old drag car for the public to see.

 

Roothawg, I agree - TV Tommy Ivo sure beat THAT system with his "clear trailer".
I may eventually enclose mine, but for now it's gonna be open. I can only hope security won't be too big a problem - can you say 357 Magnum?? I've been building mine on and off for YEARS - my patience with someone &^*&*ing with it will be mighty short.

Kingch***is, Nice job. I am afraid to do the single axle thing - I know load wise it would be fine - I'm just afraid of blowing a tire in some inopportune moment - so I decided on twin axles. I've got this thing with "spares" - I even have two chutes (which I don't really need) but after seeing that fella p*** away from having a faulty chute - changed my mind!!
King ch***is - BTW what size tubing did you use???

 

There may be some people who will argue with me, buy here is what I have discovered from a few decades of towing things, finding out what to do, and watching what to avoid ..

I strongly recommend a dual axle setup over any single axle setup. I don't care if you can find a single axle that can handle far more than you plan to carry, and many others run single axles, a dual axle is the only way to go.
If you get a flat tire on the road, and you are carrying much weight at all, a single axle trailer will pull you all over the place on a wild ride.
A dual axle trailer with a flat tire will tug at you a bit, but will still track well and allow you to drive to a suitable place to stop safely.

Everyone knows that short wheelbase cars can be a bit squirrely at high speeds while long wheelbase cars are much more stable at very high speeds. I have also noticed that the tendency of a trailer to track well at our normal highway speeds is directly related to something very similar to "wheelbase". You can call it "towing wheelbase" or "length of lever" or whatever you wish, but it is the measurement from the hitch ball (pivot) to the front trailer axle (or the center of the front trailer wheels).

I have noticed that the trailers that had a tendency to wag back and forth or pull the tow car around on the highway when loaded, whether they were U-haul box trailers, or open utility trailers, or big diesel air compressors, or asphalt heaters, all had measurements of less than 13 feet from the axle (or first axle on a dual) to the hitch ball.
If it was quite a bit under 12, the trailer sway on uneven roads started at a lower speed. Any trailer or equipment I towed that had 13 feet or more from the hitch to the front wheels was very stable at highway speeds and higher.
So I recommend at least 13 feet from the hitch ball to the front axle for better highway driving.

I like the way they did that tongue on the website you posted, but I would move that second crossmember (the one at the rear end of the tongue-tubing) a bit farther back. The closer the two front crossmembers are to each other, the greater the bending stress at the front of the long trailer side rails. If you picture a 20 foot pipe, and if you tried to pick up the pipe from one end (the tongue end) by using your hands about 10 inches apart, imagine the bending stress on the pipe that is right by your hand. Allright, allright, imagine Superman doing it...
Then imagine moving your hands to about 30 inches apart when picking up the pipe. The bending stress on those long frame rails will be much less. They look like they have a good trailer design, but I would move the second crossmember back a bit more just so the flex on the long frame rails will be less. The bending stresses from the tongue weight and the weight on the front of the trailer will be at the very highest right behind that second crossmember, so if you move it back a little, it will stiffen up that area quite a bit.

Others may have different ideas, but these are mine..
I hope this helps.

 

You don't need a trailer.

 

dare-to-be-different ; You shure sound like you know what you are talking about. If I added a second axle wonder how the tilt would be affected?
HemiR- The tube i used is 2x3 1.8" wall. I thought that it would be good since the car is light. But it looks like it has bowed a little already! From the axle back. And there is no weight back there!!? Maybe from bouncing on the road. Maybe it isnt , i will but a straight edge on it today. Man some of those old trailers from back in the day were real skimpy. I thought this was a little beefer. The tounge is 3x3 3.16''. Maybe 2x4 tube would have been better.

 

I am not advocating one axle over 2 but here is my experience.

I used to have an altered that was built in the early 50's. This car had a homemade single axle trailer that was built in 1953. I was enroute from the NDRA Muddy water nationals in 1990. It was the middle of the night and we lost a wheel, wheel studs and all at 75 mph. The only reason I knew that the wheel was gone was the 75 foot rooster tail of sparks I saw in the mirror. It never pulled or acted violently.

The car weighed about 1500 lbs and the trailer weighed about 1000 lbs. I own a dual axle car hauler but I am planning to build a single axle torsion to pull the Fly on. My 18' dovetail weighs about 2000 lbs empty.

King Ch***is. I would triangulate the neck of the trailer though.

 

Normal rule of thumb for the centerline of the axle is 1/2 the wheelbase plus 10%. If you are not going to load a bunch of stuff in the front of the trailer, you will have all your weight on the rear and no tougue weight. That is the kiss of death. Maximum width is 102" With a 102 wide axle setup you can have 80" between wheel wells. There are 2 ways to do this easy. If you go enclosed, install a trolley in the roof of the trailer. A simple 2" barndoor trolley and track will work. I had a simple hand crank winch that we hooked on the front of the car. When the front wheels get inside the trailer, you hoist up the front end about 3' and roll her in. If you decide to go open flatbed, leave the last 3 or 4' open in between the runners that the car sits on. The trailer frame will have to be tied together at the axle and then after that you can leave an open space that allows the car to have no obstacles untill the rear wheels are up your ramps a ways. Also, make a jig to sit under the rear of the ch***is that will support at least 10" of the lower frame rail. Support the ch***is so it can't bounce going done the road. 99% of all ch***is damage is caused by the highway, not the race track. 4130 tubing has a very definite fatigue life. When it's done , your car will be full of stress cracks. If this was my deal, it would be an enclosed trailer. No weather worries, a place to store the car or other items when needed, not near as much worry about theft.

 

Dare to be Different has some good points about tongue weight and axle location.

In 73 I bought a 23' trailerable sailboat.
It weighed 2500# and by the time we got all the stuff into it the weight was probably 3000# . . . like race cars, sailboats do better when they're light.

Anyway, the dealer supplied a single axle "universal" trailer that was ok, but it turned out to be a lot of troube since it was so lightweight.
Later on the boat company started supplying a heavy duty single axle trailer with 15" truck wheels and tires.
Folks who had those had virtually no problems.

Interesting part about my trailer was, the leaf springs were mounted to a piece of angle iron and bolted on with three 1/2" bolts per side.
The folded steel channel frame was drilled to match in several areas and when I got the boat the axle was all the way to the back measurement.
Probably to help the trailer tow well when empty.

I ended up moving the axle forward two positions - about a foot - and the boat still towed well.
Axle all the way back had way too much tongue weight.

The trailer had surge brakes, never again.
They'd hang up now and then if you forgot to 'pop' them forward when starting up from a stop.
Worst time was when a trucker went by honking his horn like crazy.
I looked back and smoke was pouring off the wheels cuz the brakes were dragging.
When I got stopped bearing grease was boiling out and I probably wasn't too far from having a brake fire.
After the grease stopped pouring out I pumped the bearing buddy full of grease and drove the last 10 miles home without incident.
Checked the brakes the next day and no probs.

I agree whole heartedly about the tandem axle thing.

If you're near Fresno, California go to Jacobs Trailer on Hwy 99.
If you have a business card you can get axles complete with brakes for a reasonable price.
We paid about $150. per 3500# axle w/brakes about 10 years ago when my pal was building a trailer.

I recommend boat trailer wheel hub covers strongly.
You can shoot a shot of grease in about every 3rd or 4th use without overdoing things.
Make sure the grease you're using is compatible with the grease in the trailer.
Some types of grease are not compatible with each other and you'll burn the bearings up if you do that.
(Bob's the Oil Guy, a website on oil has a list of compatible and not so compatible greases.)

I had a set of these hubs on my Jacobs 5' x 10' single axle utility box trailer and in ten years of ownership never took the bearings apart.
Use included several 200 miles one way trips to help a friend move.

Along the lines of a box trailer, mine is 102" wide.
Measured at the outside corners over the aluminum corner protective piece of angle aluminum.
Thin stuff, but if you make the box 102" wide and then add the angle strips you'll exceed the width and the guy who does the inspection for licensing more than likely will not allow it since it's 1/8" to 1/4" too wide - depending on how the aluminum strip sits on the box sheet metal.

Make sure to install a roof vent.
Mine is in the center of the trailer, my brothers 24' Wells Cargo is over the potty room in the front left corner.
They help quite a bit when the trailer is parked and you're loading.

Make a point to fully close the vent when traveling.
I see these things open all the time and they're vibrating like crazy.
Doesn't take long to damage them, especially the ones that are wide open.
Leave the vent closed when parked.
When the wind blows - and it blows a lot here in the dez - the vent will be wearing out for no good reason.

One good trick with load equalizer bars is; when installing them, don't simply lever up on the small cast arm.
Most times, when the bars are set for a heavy load it can take quite a crank to get the chain up and locked.
Easy way out is to raise the nose of the trailer - and rear of the truck - up with the trailer tongue jack (it doesn't take much height) and the chain will lever into place easily.

If you have a 20' inside measurement box trailer (mine actually measures 20' 6") you'll have to do some load balancing with the car.
Note in the pic above, my 12' long 31 on 32 rails roadster sits back a ways.
It's perhaps 2' from the rear door.
Mark the floor with a Magic Marker so you can place the car the same every time.
The pic will give you an idea although I think the car is a little forward this time - other stuff was up front.

2nd pic is of part of the right wall.
I bought some of the neat aluminum towel rack looking gizmo's - made for trailers - at March Meet one year.
I thought I had enough capacity, but didn't so I put them all in a line a the top and use some small U-thingys to attach the bungee cords to.
The bungee's keep the tie-downs from rattling around.
I have a set of gennie US made car tie downs plus another 4 Harbor Freight 20' long tie downs which have been very handy.
I also added about 8 motorcycle tie down straps and 8 small ratchet style tie downs.
As well as several different hanks of rope.
One you see is the original main sheet block and tackle from my sailboat, it's useful to move things around and tie them down.

A lot of stuff, granted, but it all came in handy during the move.
Some got used in the trailer and some got used in the pickup.

One last thought, skip the fancy floors and walls, they just add weight and cut load capacity down.
I appreciated the plywood floors when I moved the shop.
Dis***embled parts of the lathe and mill went into HD milk crates, the mill got strapped to the HD floor tie downs with the car tie down straps and the lathe bed w'headstock got lagged to the floor with short 3/8" lag bolts screwed directly into the floor.
The lathe bed was also tied down to help keep it from rocking back and forth.

And . . . the box trailer makes a good storage shed while it's parked.
I don't put very much in it and it's all lightweight stuff.
After hookup I can get it unloaded and the stuff into the garage in ten minutes by myself if I have to go out on a rescue mission - or bring an interesting find home....

 

Man this thread keeps getting better and better with more and more good information.

While I would very much prefer an enclosed wider trailer it just isn't practical (Read: possible) where I live. I'm in the city on a near postage stamp sized lot - it's very narrow although fairly long for the city. This is yet another reason why I need the keep the trailer kinda narrow. This deal will be pretty much dedicated to dragster use only.
I would also like very much to have teh ability to store teh trailer (and car) inside of a standard (?) 21 foot garage. This would allow me to back it straight into my existing garage. Of course the car is nearly that long so I am gonna have to get a little creative. And I figured since I want to have the trailer tilt anyways I might as well make the tongue slideable for storage. Here's what I am thinking so far - just a sketch - no real "hard" numbers yet. I will have to get the digger back together to be able to measure the CG.
In the meantime I am just kinda thinking out loud.

 

Back in high school(67-69) our explorer advisor ran a jr.fuel rail, had a light dedicated trailer. It was open and pulled great, but the downside was the tow car(old new yorker wagon/392) got loaded down with all the essentials.
When you get into enclosed trailers the weight goes up exponentially! You start adding this and that, end up carrying everything in the garage, etc.,and if you can stand up in it,,,,,,,,think of the wind resistance! Maybe you could come up with a compromise by making it a pop-up of some sort. how about loading it front first and have the roof hinge up in the rear so you can lower it after it's loaded, have tires and tools up front to off-set the weight of the motor and not have the axles so far back, in fact you could have a truck box up front and a tire rack(with chain&lock) then the car enclosure could be tailored to the car, could still tilt, the pivot would be behind the axle centerline, the tools and tires would not tilt. See where I'm going with this?
Anyway, lots of good advise on here and I'm sure you'll keep us posted. LEE