OK, I have this Mark Williams Altered Ch***is. Thanks to Porkn****** I also now have the correct torsion tube and arms forthe front end. What I need is pics on how others have hooked up a torsion tube to an early ford (1940) front axle. Ways to locate? Hairpins? Bones? Input? Ideas? I saw the pics of Hellsapoppin's front end setup. I like how they use lower locators with the torsion link loacting the top. Thanks, Trent.
Trent, If you can get your hands on a Feb. '66 Rod & Custom magazine, there's a several page article on Torsion Bar front ends. Lots of pics and diagrams. Good luck. Dan
The cleanest setup is to do what you described, use the torsion links as half of a four link with two longer rods, top or bottom depending how it lays out on your frame. Some triangulation on the radius rods wont hurt but the torsion arms control side to side movement. I've only used these with tube axles, so welding on mounting brackets was standard. Not sure how brackets welded to the i-beam would look, maybe you could attach the torsion arms behind the axle and run upper rods to the perch bolts?
While they don't involve a Ford axle, Trent, here are some details of a Fuller front end that may help you visualize the over all scheme from the man who created the concept. Fuller made the pieces shown last year for the recreation of the Stelling & Hampshire AA/FD. Fuller declined an offer to build the new car because his once-superb welding skills are compromised by his eyesight. The new ch***is was built to Fuller's specs by master racecar builder John Shoemaker who is a pal of Fuller. Fuller bent the axle and made the suspension pieces from his own tracer templates on his pantagraph plasma cutter to ensure that the front end would be correct. The torsion arms are given a 45-degree recessed cut, and the sleeves that fit into the front crossmember/torsion-bar tube are chamfered 45 degrees as well. This ensures concentriicity when the two pieces are ***embled and welded inside the sleeve. Here are the pieces for the three-bar front end. Note the elongated holes in the torsion arms -- absolutely essential to allow the suspension to work without binding. The front end in place on Shoemaker's ch***is table. FWIW, Fuller gave his torsion arms a slight bend in the press brake. I once asked him why, expecting to learn of some secret racing trick. "Because that's the way they're supposed to be, " he replied Sure enough; check how the torsion arms and the control link are parallel. No racing trick, just Fuller's asthetic sense keeping pace with his engineering skill. BTW, the only pieces to survive from the original S&H car were the 'chute-pack tail and body panels. The fins of Fuller's own Cadillac El Dorado provided inspiration for the profile of the tail. I hope this helps. Mike
The setup AV8 pictured is what I would call an earlier style (late '50s early '60s, maybe Fuller style) and with 4 radius rods and needs the slotted torsion arms to prevent suspension bind. These uaually have VW style torsion springs and three bolt friction shocks on the ends. The type I described is more late '60s (maybe Gilmore style) up till they quit using any front suspension. They have a splined round bar that the arms attach to. I think this is what is on the Hellsapoppin' car. Which style torsion bar you have will somewhat decide how many radius rods you need. (Sorry, I've got lots of pictures but no scanner as yet)
Yes, thanks to everyone on this thread so far! SJFast, that pic actually helps. av8, I might just have to build my own tube axle. I would trust new DOM more than my old Ford axle anyway. That is, if I were actually building a dragcar.
Mike, where does the torsion action come in? Are the plates like a friction shock? Is there some sort of spring wond inside the tube to counter the forces? Enlighten me....this intrigues me.
The torsion "bar" is actually a VW torsion spring pack that's prevented from rotating inside the crossmember by a bolt in the bottom center of the crossmember. The ends of the torsion spring pack engage the square opening in the center of each torsion arm. The torsion arms also function as friction shocks, with a disc of cowhide sandwiched between the outer plates and the torsion arms. Clever, no?
I can't say for sure about cars out of Fuller's shop, but in my real world experience with these cars, once the ch***is got to 150" w/b or longer the ch***is flex was the suspension, the torsion bar was there to satisfy the rule book.
I LOVE the trick of the opposite chamfers to center the tubing on the arm! Always trying to learn the oldmasters tricks like that. thank you. jerry
We talk about it at times, Root. Fuller has substantial archives, thanks to his wife Evelyn who is almost as expert as he is on the history and chronology of the couple of hundred-plus cars he built. With a few dozen of his more famous cars preseved and restored there's certainly a wealth of visiual information to put together a really comprehensive book. So far, I haven't found a publisher who is interested. I have considered applying for a grant; Fuller's seminal designs and subsequent and lasting influence on dragster design and construction, along with his body of work certainly warrant being do***ented for posterity. About eight years ago we collaborated on a story for American Rodder magazine that presented an overview of his life and achievements, but there wasn't sufficient room to explore the technical aspects of his work in depth. Mike
Mike, that American Rodder story is a great insight into the evolution of the slingshot and Fullers techniques. It's one I keep near the top of my stack for reference, reread it this spring. Thanks for your work. Bill
Thanks for your kind words, Bill. When my work is re-read and used for reference I feel as though I'm doing okay. I'll see Fuller for breakfast tomorrow and and p*** along your comments. Mike
Tman- there was a real slick 27 Roadster at the Flyin Eyeball Reunion in Davenport the week before Hamb drags...I saw it up close and it had a very slick Torsion setup with an I beam axle...... It had the torsion bar mounted at about 30 degrees directly under the frame rail and about 10 inches behind the axle. the torsion bar itself couldn't have been over 6" in length! A poster showed some pics of that event here and I want to say his handle was MySSNova or kinda like that....
Looks like this whole front end thing was handled by Mike. These are the only two pictures of my front ends I have handy. One of the neat things Pete taught me was to give the wheels a little "toe-in" when aligning the front ends. At speed the wheels like to splay out!
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