tcp global sells lacquers on their website, there out of san deigo ca. smallest amount is 1 qt. i think.
Auto Air Colors. pretty much fool proof base coat system if you simply follow the instructions. you still have to have solid body work and know how to apply primer and clear, but as far as the color, AAC is where its at for a rookie. you can buy the product in 4 oz containers, requires no chemical solvents, is a virtually no VOC product, has no restrictive time windows, etc. its a beauty. really is a stir and shoot product. the first job i EVER did (on a motor bike) was with AAC and i've used nothing but since then. i tackled my first ever complete (52 chevy search kliche koupe here on the hamb) using the product and i'm simply stoked. i'm getting ready to do the fat bobs and fenders on my bike and AAC is the only product on my agenda. it is one of the most fool proof, user friendly, forgiving systems on the planet. if you have ANY questions, shoot me a PM.
Parker, I have been thinking about this all morning, and when I came on now it looks like you have got some good answers. My initial response was a little harsh. The problem with asking many people questions like this is that you will get many different answers to the point of becoming overwhelmed. You would be better off to ask someone that is proven successful. The fact that you are in California means you have to deal with paints that most of us are not familiar with. My opinion is to stay away from lacquer for this project because it dries through evaporation of the solvents. Gasoline is a solvent and can readily attack lacquer. The catalyzed paints (two part) link up at a molecular level to make them impervious to solvent attack. This is the reason for the "window" for applying additional coats. Once they harden they are tough. My point the first time was that you should pick a brand and go with it. There are undoubtably many body shops around you that use the same materials that the paint store will set you up with. The "problem" of having to bake the paint that the one store wanted to sell you is really not that much of a problem for your project. You probably already have some halogen work lights. These lights do the same thing as the professional light banks used by the body shops. Four of them will easily heat the fuel tank to over 140 degrees (that is the temp I found online for the paint you talked about). You could even put the whole setup in a large cardboard box for an "oven". I just bomb canned some hood hinges this morning and placed them in front of some work lights, I checked the temp. with an infrared thermometer and parts of them were over 160 degrees with no cover. Whenever I do something new I look to see how the professionals do it because they usually do what is best and most practical. This includes choice of materials and the type of tools used. Have fun, but seriously, just make a choice and do it. Alden
That's some really nice work! I have a better understanding of bc/cc than the single stage. I am sure a fuel spill on a tank is unavoidable and I would hate to watch a paint job melt away. I can see why a single stage would be a great choice but I do have fuel to deal with. The big issues is logos or pin-stripping. I was thinking these would get a coat of CC. What would be your approach with a single stage? I would think your flame work and multi-color work is all bc/cc.
If you choose to go Lacquer, without clear coat, I would spray a test panel and let it dry for a couple days and dump gas on it....that is the best way to tell if it will be affected by gas, I have had paint wrinkle at the gas opening just from the fumes, so I get a bit skiddish around that anyway...[/QUOTE] Solid advice form another "Jakie", thanks brother! I'll do some more reading on the lacquer systems. Kind of a big gamble to buy some materials and hope they wont wrinkle up. Its probably smarter to buy a good BC/CC, not that I am that smart!
I really do not know about whether the bake is necessary, but it looks like the manufacturer recommends it. It is possible that the paint would harden without it, but it's also possible that it may take a very long time for the paint to achieve it's potential hardness. A paint rep. told me about the work lights. The banks of lights they sell have more wattage in a small package, but the work lights do the same thing. The 500watt ones really heat things up. For spot repairs a person wants to heat it up to avoid the solvents going down into the existing paint and causing all sorts of problems. The lights shine through the paint to heat the metal and drive the solvents out. And in the case of the catalyzed finishes kick off the chemical reaction. ~Alden
So I have spent the last month reading everything I could on rust prep, paint systems and paint guns. Its been a roller coster ride to say the least. It seems the moment I think I have made up my mind on something, I then find information against it. So a couple more questions after I tell you where I am at. The only thing I have really decided is that I will be using a base coat, clear coat. The SS systems seem too risky on a fuel tank. I am leaning towards the House of Kolors line for the following reasons: 1.-They offer a full line of products so no mixed brand compatibility issues. 2.-The KD3000 is both a high/ low build primer & sealer 3.-The products are available both locally and on-line. 4.-The pricing appears to be competitive. 5. Lots of information and videos on you tube of the products in use. Questions: Is this system difficult to use? I made a trip to yet another FinishMasters where the counter guy basically told me I was out of my mind looking at HOK, but I think he felt the same about me being a DYI guy. So my other issue is rust and converting it or removing it. I have read through dozens of pages on the topic and phosphoric acid seems to be the chemical of choice. Some say not to use it with HOK. In reading the tech sheet HOK states not to prime over a surface with acid on it. It addresses the need to condition metal and states to remove it completely prior to priming. I understand if you wash it before it dries you have then removed the acid. I would like more feedback on this topic especially if your using HOK products. Finally, anyone using the LVLP gravity guns. I am tempted to try and use a hvlp gun with my compressor hoping it can handle the small items I am painting, the largest being my tank. I have realized my compressor is marginal at best: 6.4CFM @ 90PSI /8.6CFM @ 40 PSI. Gary
I always read these paint threads with a lot of interest. I've always said that if you got 50 paint guys in one place and talked paint, I doubt you would find two of them that would totally agree on anything paint and yet all of them probably get good results with the systems that they use. I've personally always thought the painting part was the fun or payoff part of any refinishing job I did. The prep to me is the hard work. I started out shooting acrylic lacquer in the late 60's and as has been stated it's easy to work with and the end result can be made to look great. Acrylic enamel became my bread and butter material to use in the 70's, since I could shoot them slick and go out the door without buffing. The BC/CC systems became the way to go in the 80's and the systems have evolved since then. The new BC/CC systems are no harder to use than lacquer with the exception of dealing with pot life of the materials once it's activated. The plus with the BC/CC systems is durability. These are some of my early attempts at painting bikes in the early 70's. Not great by today's standards, but people were willing to pay me 50-100 bucks which allowed me to learn more on the next job. Get yourself a gun and some paint and have fun. It's not rocket science.
I'm not a painter, but using a cheap gun and Ebay BC/CC I've been able to spray some pretty good looking parts. The base coats these days are easy to spray, dry quickly, and are easy to fix if you screw up. Clear takes some practice, but even my shittiest efforts could be buffed out and look halfway good. Durability with the BC/CC stuff always seemed better than with lacquer, too. Just don't ask me to paint flames.......
Parker, I am not sure what you are asking about rust. On something as small as a M/C fuel tank you should be able to sand off all the rust. I would use a self etching primer over the bare metal. As for the HVLP, seriously, try the Harbor Freight 47016 spraygun. You can get them for $9.99 and they work well.
I agree with Cadzook about the gun. Considering that you're only painting a tank and two side covers black, I would not invest in a high dollar gun or worry about whether it's an HVLP or LVLP. If your location is California, I don't know what's available to you or what is "legal" to use there. Unlike painting a whole car, screw-ups in painting small items are easy to do over and not nearly as expensive. I would still suggest you get yourself a cheap gun and some paint and practice. When I first started painting, I painted anything that would sit still long enough to be sprayed. Empty thinner cans, coffee cans, tool boxes, file cabinets........ all got practice paint jobs. Unless you have a real interest in painting, it might be much cheaper to find a local pro to paint your parts and avoid the investment and possible hassle of painting it yourself.
Downfall of laquer is since its a gas tank. Any gas spilled on it will stain or lift it. Use a good urethane base/ clear or single stage. All the brands are preference. good luck
Drew, Your motorcycle paint was some nice work for its day, I am sure they all got allot of attention. I appreciate your encouragement, and even more after reading your F100 Build thread. Your a talented man! I can see that your experience comes from plenty of time working with the tools. As impressed as I am by your build, I even more impressed that your wife stripped the paint. You know I took a look at the HF guns and walked away. Every box I looked at appeared to be open and picked through. It seems allot of folks are using them for primer guns. Now that you and Cadzook have endorsed them I'll take another look. I also agree I need to get some practice. I was eying my rusty wheel-barrow earlier.
The project has expanded a bit to the frame and several other small items. Some rust and some pitting to deal with. I can see by the standard of the restorations on the H.A.M.B that my job is miniscule in comparison. It still shares some of the challenges of any rustoration so that is why I have come here to learn and hopefully avoid some of the common mistakes.
For your project a wire wheel should remove any rust spots. I use a sandblaster for hard to get to spots. Use a self etching primer, followed by a primer surfacer, sanding, then topcoats. You can get the etching primer in bomb cans, which would be fine for the small area you're doing. I used the gun I referred to on my '49 Cad., a Saturn, a '93 GMC, and a '78 GMC. It works well on topcoats. I used it for primers but it is not ideal for that as it is a little small (orifice-wise). For your project it would be perfect. I also do not like to buy things in previously opened boxes. People do not believe me when I tell them what I sprayed those vehicles with, particularly my Cadillac.
Cadzook, I initially was going to use the etching primer as you advised. Now I realize its not compatible with many of the primers and fillers. I would of thought a black base and clear would be easy to find but the local jobbers haven't been exactly welcoming. As you know there are a couple of online sources but not alot of reviews on the products so I am currently looking at House of Kolor. Until I pick a system I am basically paralyzed. Spokane? I move into that town for all of three months when I was 18. I was hoping to get a job in construction. My brothers father in law was a developer from LA who was building subdivisions. I found out the job forman didn't car much for him. My long hair didn't help but being from Californian doomed me. A 125 yahama dirt bike and the weekend trips to Lake Coeur d'Aleneon on the in-laws 36' ocean cruiser kept me sane. Hey, what is the name of the street everyone cruised on Saturday night? Man, that was a page right out of American Graffiti.
That would be Riverside. We spent a lot of Friday nights there frying our tires and attempting to pick up girls!
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