Technical Eagle or SCAT for a balanced stroker assembly?

In an effort to “plan ahead” I have a set of main and rod bearings I can’t use after polishing the crank. Lesson learned. So have decided on a new rotating ***embly, and may as well grab a few for CI’s along the way.
I see Eagle and **** both offer balanced 383 ***emblies

Why a new ***embly? Well, I found two holes that have more ring groove than I originally thought, so the block should be bored anyway, that leads to new pistons, etc.
So why not just go with all new stuff and eliminate a lot of shop labor?

What have you used and didn’t have issues with?

I don’t mind doing some clearancing, but don’t want to have to be concerned about balancing. I not concerned about a cost difference between the two.

The engine won’t see but 5500rpms max.

Since I’ll only have a shop take the block 30 over, I’ll be putting it together

Advice and opinions welcome

 

Don't skimp on anything. I saw another engine at where I had my 355 short block done. The owner went with a cheap eBay reboxed **** crank, long story made short, the crank turned out to have an internal flaw. Torqued to spec, it wouldn't turn in the block.

 

What other alternatives are out there?

Warped or bent, or journals not correct?

 

I think that **** currently has the better reputation. I have **** ***emblies in a 355 and a 383. The cranks and rod bores mic'ed out pretty good. Skip White Performance has probably the best price going for balanced 383 **** ***emblies. They use a .015" taller compression height Wiseco piston which allows some options.

 

So the pistons Skip White uses are not for a zero decked block? Just a trued/ surfaced block I’m ***uming?

 

Blueprint height for SBC is 9.020", with a 9" stack up, which leaves the piston down in the hole .020". The selling point is that with the .015" lowered pin you only need to remove .005" from the decks to achieve zero deck height. Less machine work. OF course if the block is already decked to 9.00" that Wiseco piston is going to come .015 out of the hole with the new 9.015 stack up.
Those pistons can also give you a few options for choosing a head gasket thickness, especially with aluminum heads, for getting quench distance in the proper range.

 

Okay, I see what you mean. I do want the block surfaced, not looking at zero decking it, so that looks like a good approach to take. Thanks!

 

I've used a couple of **** kits. Very satisfied. You will see some bad reviews on both brands but not knowing the whole story, how would you know? The cranks and rods both miced what they were supposed to be. My kits came from the original Coast High Performance which is no more. That was Mark ONeal.

 

I asked my machinist and he said he hasn't seen any big difference in any of them. He says not to bother buying a balanced ***embly, they are never balanced very well and he has to rebalance them anyway. So far he says he hasn't seen any major failures, only piston/ring land failures from nitrous.

 

Have ran them both in circle track applications which are hard on everything. **** offers many different cranks from cast to highly modified forgings. To me it’s your use and expectations.
As with most things it comes down to dollars. We started with Eagle components and now use **** which are very good quality according to the machinist who check everything before we ***emble it. We did have a minor problem with a rod from **** and they had excellent response and made good in their product. I can’t comment on a complete ***embly from then because we use CP for pistons.

 

Compe***ion products , **** 9000 crank. Oliver 6" rods ,( wanted internal balance) KB hyper claimer pistons , full floating pins ,mahle moly filled rings , king allecular bearings.. Has 30 k miles on the parts , ain't broke it yet.. Comp prod balanced the ***y....

 

My 427 sbc has a Callies crank/rod set with Wiseco forged pistons, didn't really need it.
Normally I would say "Cheap Insurance", not this time.

 

Here is something to think about. I like hypereutechtic pistons and cast pistons are fine if you aren't going for a high rpm/high stress. BUT,..........

I have been dis***embling a different engine and I decided to see what the OEM had provided. The original pistons are cast and the rods are pretty decent armasteel parts. I checked factory deck height and weight all the rods and pistons. The weight spread on most of the parts was pretty good. What I was wanting to know was the total weight of each piston/rod/ring/pin ***embly. My logic was that if I could get components that weighed less than the OEM parts, then balancing the engine should ONLY require drilling to become balanced.
I got my H beam rods a while back and the new forged pistons showed up yesterday. I haven't got the rings yet because I haven't decided what type I will use. I figure ring weight comparison between OEM and aftermarket won't show too much difference.
With that in mind, I weighed OEM pistons/rods/pins and compared them to my new ones. Surprisingly, even though they are +.030 oversize, they are 130 grams lighter. Great news!

My point here is that many people select cast pistons to build their engines economically. I suspect that cast pistons may normally be heavier because extra metal (thicker) is used to give them more strength. The problem is that if you end up with a heavier ***embly, you may need to have Mallory metal added to balance a crank. There goes the savings.
If I'm correct here, it might be worth the effort by builders to see what your OEM components weigh before deciding what to purchase for your build.

 

I see on other forums that **** is better than Eagle.

 

I'll stick with the OEM forgings.....

 

A set of **** rods costs sub $300. If you put in new ARP bolts, have the rod resized, and have them pressed on and off the wrist pins. you will have almost the cost of new rods in them and the **** rods are built with better material. I just built an engine. I used **** rods on the stock crank instead of the stock, original, million plus cycle old rods.

 

i am a fan of 383 engines i have built a few and am very happy with the performance my off topic car has an eagle rotating kit from bill mitchel ( his kit at the time came with L19 rod bolt upgrade as standard) it has gone 10.80 for many years with no issues my sons car got a **** kit ( from white performance ) it is street driven and run high 11s also have had no issues both kits are forged and balanced as part of the kit i hear about one being better than the other but i find both as accceptable

 

sorry for second post but it still feels scary pulling the L19 rod bolts to 80 foot pounds

 

This was a $200 eBay **** crank, they come in from China and get put into a **** box. The builder hates **** like this. First shot, the crank wouldn't spin in the block. The owner agreed to a .010/.010 cut and polish, check straightness. Back into the block and torqued, no turn. The builder calls me and asks if he can borrow my crank which was just cut fresh. I say yes and it turned like it should. The last I heard was that **** was going to come down and look at it. I suspect it had a gross flaw in the casting, this was not a forged crank.

 

This is what I swear by, cannot beat stock steel even though it has many cycles on it.

 

I was quoted $270 to refurbish my stock rods for ARP bolts. This was in late 2015, I found a set of **** rods delivered to my door for $255, win, win.

 

I have a **** system in my 383 stroker for a number of years with no problems. I let the machine shop that bored my block also balance everything else and ***embly it. This has turned out to be a reliable motor and would do it all over again.......

 

Cheapest is often not Bestus...........

 

Compe***ion Products get a lot of our engine parts business. along with Summit. Their catalog is great for checking valve spring specs. I bought a Performance Plus knockoff intake for our spare circle track engine and was very surprised with its construction, finish and performance.

 

I bought one of those, "ready to ***emble", already "balanced kits", for a BBC. When it arrived, only ONE rod, only ONE piston/pin, only ONE set of rings, and ONE set of bearings, had been opened, to do the "balancing"; the rest were still in the manufacturer, taped shut, boxes. That told me this was ONLY a "targeted" balance job, and NOT the precision balance, that I paid for; what they advertised. Basically, it was't anything more than a manufacturer (Chevrolet, Ford, MOPAR, etc) balance. It did NO good to call them up, as they claimed they did "balance the ***embly". My machinist had to do a precision balance on ALL the parts. The new dampener and flex-plate were also still in taped shut boxes. This was from one of the above mentioned, popular, parts suppliers. I should have just bought the parts, and had my machinist do the balancing from the start; it would have been a little bit cheaper. Caveat emptor, as they say. Another lesson learned, the hard way. Since my machinist had to do all the balancing work, I also went ahead and had just had him ***emble the short block too, which took away a little bit of the enjoyment from me. But it's all done right. He also told me that a lot of these offshore cranks have to be fully checked out, and many need to be further polished, otherwise they'll just eat the bearings up in no time. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Who in their right mind would set out to build a performance engine and use "cheapest" as one of the criteria?

 

Two things, let me clear up. I didn’t ask for the cheapest, as far as performance, I’m looking at the free TQ added, not looking for high HP, Max RPM will b in 5400-5500 range.
I was looking at an additional 30+ cubes for not a whole lot more money than having current crank cut and new pistons, rods resized, etc.

 

I'm sure there are many cl***ifications of folks who could be listed , but basically , it would be people without a lot of money to spend on toys , or those who look strictly at cost/ benefit..

 

Most of these kits use name brand pistons (but even pistons are now made offshore in India); you can buy really expensive, race type pistons for around 600-800, or more, dollars made here. Some of the Callies, Lunati, and others crankshafts, are also made offshore, then some are finished here, some there. Same with connecting rods. It's not really anyone's fault (unless you're an automotive parts CEO, who had a minor in math), and it's not "cheap", more like "affordable". IF I did't have to supplement my 28 year old daughter's livelihood, who lives 300 miles away, I could better afford parts, or the parts I really want (she costs ME $2500.00 to $5000.00 a month, every month!!! Do the math on that, and my wife stands in the way of me stopping that); believe me, that really has an impact on what and when I can do or buy something. I have even taken to selling off a lot of my old parts so I can better afford this hobby. It's either that, or no hobby. I'd like everything to be made right here in the U.S.A., but that's not going to happen any time soon, more like never. Like I said, I don't look at it as CHEAP, but AFFORDABLE. My OT Bracket Car is a Biscayne (shhhhh!); does't make sense to have a crankshaft that costs more than the car. Want a really nice, really expensive, piece of jewelry crankshaft, look up Winberg Crankshafts on Google; put your sungl***es on first though. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Very well put Butch. Sometimes we have to make do with what we can afford and not what is “best”.


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