History Early 1900's factory paint - Gloss level ???

Got to wondering about the original early 1900's factory paint.

All pics of back when the cars were newish are grainy black and white, but there seems to be little or no reflection in the paint surface. What gloss level would the paint have been when new, straight off the ***embly line? It certainly doesn't look like a gloss finish in any old images. More satin, semi-gloss or matt.

What are your thoughts? Anyone out there 120 years old that knows for sure ???

 

Gloss finish paint has been around far longer than automobiles.

 

Coach enamel, incredibly high gloss. Comb-your-hair type reflections.

 

A lot of those early cars and parts were just dipped in paint, drip-dried, and the finish was whatever it ended up.

 

Here's a photo that captures gloss pretty well. Of course this is a luxury car with a lot of plating to complement the finish. (American Underslung? ) Check out the reflection of the handbrake or horn on the right side of the body

I was always curious about depth and gloss on 40s and 50s cars...I collect Kodachrome car and travel photo. While its probably an effect of the lighting, quite a few "new"cars seem to have very little depth or gloss even though the finish is very pleasing overall.

 

So it could just be the quality of the old photographic images rather than the paint gloss level?

The image in the post above seems higher resolution than most from the era, and shows a quite high gloss finish.

I was also wondering about the application method. Brush? Dipped? Surely too early for spraying.........

 

Dipped for smaller parts, brush for larger flat panels. Coach enamel flows beautifully and self-levels to a superb gloss finish if done right.

 

Found this......
https://pchrome.com/history-automotive-paint/#:~:text=In the late 1980s, car,durable and highly glossy finishes.
Scroll to the top for the early years.

 

It was very glossy.

Further to this, old B&W Box Brownie photographs from the dry lakes can also give a false impression because all the cars were covered in a fine dust. Not matt paint, but fine lake dust.

 

100 years ago paint technology was not as good. UV and ozone resistance was poorer and finishes did not last as long. High gloss was more expensive so some commercials were painted with cheaper duller finishes. Black was the most durable and fastest drying paint because it was lamp carbon based, which is why Ford used it.

 

Original pic of brand new Model T's rolling off the ***embly line with brand new paint still seems to show as more of a satin type finish.

 

New production cars may have a wax type coating to protect the paint until it gets to the dealers.

 

They were also buffed in the process of ***embly. We just had a video showing that on the hamb.

 

This one looks dirty but shiny:


Gloss:




Note the fender and running board reflection on the side:

 

Model A Fords base color is not real shiny but the black fenders have a shiny finish
JMO.

 

The shiny ones used Johnson’s Car-Nu!

 

Many of the really clear images come from gl*** negatives. They have an incredible level of detail too.

 

The dusty roads back the might effect the gloss on pictures a bit!

 

A lot of high line horse buggies and fire apparatus had a very shiny high gloss finish that lasted a while if they were out of the elements. The roads of the time, the quality of the paint materials, and the elements of outdoor life wasn't very paint friendly for that stuff that had to live outside, or were often used.

There would not be any reason believe that at least the high line cars of the time had very high gloss finish when they were purchased new. That high gloss finish was probably pretty short lived though.

 

When did Lacquer paint come into the picture? The original Lacquer paint needed to be buffed and waxed on a regular basis to stay shiny.

 

That makes perfect sense, and goes a long way to possibly explaining why the photo records of the time give the impression of a satin/matt finish. The paint of the day probably lost it's lustre fairly quickly.

 

https://www.paint.org/coatingstech-magazine/articles/brief-history-automotive-coatings-technology/

 

Shortly after he returned to Michigan, and after spending about a year in a French hospital recovering from being g***ed by the Germans at the Battle of St Micheal, late in WWI, my grandfather started working for Ford and then Packard (or vice versa) as a metal finisher (lead) and painter.

He’s long gone now, but I distinctly recall him graphically explaining how he brush painted the bodies, with, I think, nitrocellulose lacquer at Ford and Packard. The conversation was in 1972 while I was working on my 55 Chevy in the street. Not sure about the nitrocellulose part, but I’m pretty sure about the lacquer part. He worked at the auto plants from roughly 1919 to 1930 when he left because wages and hours were constantly being cut such that he couldn’t make enough money at the auto plants to support a growing family.

 

The sunshine was brighter without all the smog and such in the sky now.

 

So you are saying the paint faded much faster back then.........

 

Henry Ford once remarked that customers could order a Model T in any colour they wanted, so long as it was black. The reason was that ‘Japan Black’ lacquer was one of the few widely available metal coatings available at the time, and its fast-drying characteristics were indispensible on Ford’s ***embly line.

That changed with the development of nitrocellulose lacquer in the early 1920s. The new lacquer dried even faster, and it could be applied using spray guns. Best of all, an infinite colour palette was opened up. Nitrocellulose was adopted quickly by the car industry and remained the finish of choice through to the late-1950s.

From here: https://guitar.com/guides/essential-guide/all-about-nitrocellulose/

 

Urban legends and blended truths above, and more technical info than even I would ever want. Still interesting. The question was how glossy, well you could pick your teeth or comb your hair since the finish was so level and glossy. And that's the trick, the surface. New metal, base primers, fast and accurate standards. On my shop computer I have a pic of swimsuit model next to her 39-40 GM conv. Almost perfect reflection. I also have a pic of a 29 Packard, just a casual exec getting in or out, the reflections are near GNRS perfect. Fact, every Model A except pickups were wet sanded and buffed to very high gloss. Lincoln cut an polished their lacquer finishes until 1971 or 72. Brushing lacquers were somewhat slow, the bigger producers had drying rooms that were heated to speed things up. Polishing was done with actual pumice stones 1st in finer grits and then power buffed with cable drive buffing pads. There's more but this will do for now.

 

1930 and 1939. Whatcha all think...

 

Looks shiny to me. Consider they had the full line up of lead and toxic chemicals to work with - before they were regulated

 

Here's another, not black or dark, regular daylight, and from a distance (my personal test of surface quality is clarity at a distance). Note the reflections.


This was their base model, an 1100 sedan. Not that any Packard of that era was "entry level" pricing, but when you consider it was still the price of 3 Fords you best believe it looked the part too.