I've found very limited information about them, but a few weeks ago I picked up a model A "AR" frame. I traded some unused parts for it and had plans to use it in a 28/29 roadster. This thing is immaculate... no pitting, no cracks, very little surface rust. One of the nicest A frames I've seen not already in a car. To my main question... is there any inherent value in an original early "AR" style frame. I'd hate to cut up the front crossmember, Tardel step this thing, weld in an F1 crossmember, only to have Henry's ghost haunt me for it. Thanks!
Post some pictures! I'm sure someone in MAFCA would be happy to swap frames with you! Hell, I know I'd love an early solid mount frame!
I would say that any one AR part while rarer than the normal part. Unless it is with a complete car, or needed for a specific AR restoration that it's not rare enough to worry about.
Agree with others, while rarer and interesting not enough of a market to be necessarily more valuable. Get with a local restorer and would probably gladly trade you for a later and maybe throw in some “hot rod” part take offs he has laying around. There is a local restorer a buddy got some rotoflow shocks from he pulled from a restoration and had no use for, also some interesting chrome parts he didn’t like as they where painted black for a correct resto.
Yes, "AR" specific parts of any spot are highly sought after! Contact your local Model A club. My bet is you can easily find someone to swap you, and since you're interested in building a Model A, the contacts you make might prove valuable in the future (just don't disclose ALL of your hot rod plans, in case lynch mobs are popular in your area!)
Just one guys opinion.....early 1928 fans restore mostly complete cars. They search for early clutch parts,or steering wheels to replace 29 parts.It would be hard if not crazy hard to build an AR from a bare frame. I would just use it myself.
AR means model A built at the River Rouge plant... memory says less than 1 year...think they then moved to highland park... the p brake handle on the left must have needed a mounting bracket...
myergin......I know a gentleman who is active in a Model A club in Memphis TN. While not close to Indy, it's also not half way across the country. If there's no local active Model A club around Indy and if you'd be interested I might try to find contact info on him. Lynn
There was a build thread somewhere, maybe Hop Up some years ago. Where they were documenting a build of a late T touring on an A frame with a B banger motor. In that series of articles a mention was made of using an early (AR) frame because they were made of a slightly heavier gauge metal. Sorry cannot find the articles now, but no doubt someone here will know.
That frame is desirable to the right guy. My friend has an AR with a bent frame and is your right guy, but is in the Southern California area. If you can avoid it, as others have said, save it for a restorer and use a more common frame.
Engine and frame both had the same number, so I'm trying to date the frame for him. There were four major changes to Model A frame over it's run and dozens of minor changes. I doubt that you have the first design A-5005-A as it was only used on approximately the first 200 cars. The next frame was A-5005-B. The front crossmember was a carryover from the previous frame with brackets added to the lower corners of the solid motor mount making it a "three piece" front crossmember.. In January 1928 this crossmember was changed to a one piece design. You won't find anything on the so called "AR" distinction in the Judging Standards of ether the M.A.R.C or the M.A.F.C.A. Do you have pictures of the frame?
If I remember correctly from the 1928 Roadster pickup I had years ago, the front crossmember has intrical mounting brackets for the engine. Also there are Provisions for the left hand emergency brake. They did not use that extra cross shaft for emergency brakes and the Center crossmember has different holes punched in it for mounting the Equalizer brake system that they used. None of that makes a lot of difference if you're building a hot rod.
If it is a rust pit free frame USE IT, few people are building AR Model A's from parts, unlike the 1909 T people. I've got an A frame with forged running board brackets, not sure how long that feature lasted.
there are very few A restorers around here, they are keeping the one they have, and not starting anew.. use the good frame and enjoy not having to deal with all the work to get a $100 frame to look that good...
Can someone show me documentation that Ford called early Model A Ford's, "AR". Not hearsay such as "my grandfather that knew Henry Ford told me", "I once read about it", only documentation in black and white.
it is in a book, lent to me and returned 30 years ago... large size pages, peterson, paterson or something like that was the author... memory says it was green... check the books that are for sale at the back of most parts catologs...
The "AR" brakes are the main things that got changed early on. There are other odds and ends that the True Addicted Model A Restoration guys also collect for the restoration of an early 1928 Ford, if you know what to look for you can get a few more bucks for these parts. For close to 60 years the Restoration Zealots in the Model A Clubs have been a total turn off and I never saw a reason to join either club.
Exactly, the "AR" designation is simply a suffix after a part number. I have owned several Model A's since 1968 and have been a National Judge and the so called "AR" question pops up once in a while. At one time it was thought "AR" was the first 200 cars, not so. There is a complete section in the M.A.R.C and M.A.F.C.A. judging standards on Early 1928 vehicles. 1927 vehicles, October through December, beginning of production to engine number 4186, are referred to as "Very Early 1928". January through June of 1928, engine number 4187 to 170,000 are judged as "Early 1928". So we need to see what the number stamped on the frame in question is, to properly date it.
I see nothing wrong in authenticating a certain antique -- If you're into it. I'm not. But original is original. Hell, they do that with all sorts of later model cars, too, like (I think) supercharged T-Birds, early Corvairs that have a vent or something out front, etc.
The Jalopy Journal
