Ryan's recent JJ post cue about the roots of hotrods and speed being on the dirt has inspired me... I am lucky to have a younger brother who it really into model T's and he has a few extra frames and drive-lines lying around... So I am exploring the possibility of piecing together a ride reminiscent of these early speedsters... and I think the process will follow the ride itself in being "traditional" minded, as just like these guys who went out and either bought a cheap t and striped it down, or went to a junkyard to gather enough peices to build a car, i will be digging through our parts stash of great old T pieces... I have a question though, while initially I will prob use a Planetary Tranny, and I am pretty sure the car below still has the planetary intact, I wonder if there were any early manual trannies that were used to upgrade the planetary and made to work with the Model T engine and rear-end. What were some common T engine and Tranny choices in these early home-built rides? And were there any common upgrades for the T's planetary transmission? Or did the racers use the Planetaries and 'tweek' them a bit? Just curious... Like I said, I will be using a stock T driveline in the begining but as time and money allow, I may try to 'upgrade' in the same way one of these racers would have back in the 20s and 30's... any suggestions are appreciated... but please keep in mind, I am not going to use any other power plant than a model T engine, so I'm not really that interested in alternative engine suggestions... cheers!
Hey hey, any info out there on this stuff? I would really appreciate any info one could offer... thanks in advance
you pretty much have to use the planetary trans because the bottom cover is also the oil pan for the engine.I have seen a few modified & ran without but they were direct drive race cars.best bet is to get a auxellery trans that bolts to the rear of the original.several companys made them,warford,jumbo,muncie.there were a couple that claimed you eliminated the bands,but I have never seen one & it still bolted behind the hogs head. i have a couple warfords,one a two speed & a three speed in my car.gives you six forward gears.if you had a ruckstell rear end"2speed"that would double.you will never use them all,but in the hills you will be able to find a gear were you can climb pretty good.the ruckstell high will drop the r's & help you on the high speed flats
Yea, i kinda figured you'd need to keep the bottom oil pan intact. but didn't know that there were these auxillary trannies for behind the planetary. My brother has a ruckstel in his car. I''ll have to start loking for the auxillarys. Thanks!
I've seen both Model A transmissions and late model C4's used behind T engines. I don't have the particulars on how they are done...surely somebody here does. It does involve cutting the crankcase ("pan") off at the back of the engine, and welding in a piece so that the crankcase ends there instead of going to the back of the trannny.
stop thinkin, start assembling! get a chassis together with a motor setting in it, I'll show you a cool way to Z the frame and redo the front suspension to get it a bit lower too then mount a grill and radiator and start figuring how to make a body work, i assume this'll be a single seater? you'll have to run a pressure pump to make it over the mountain! get rolling, only about 3 months to go!!
Run a Warford behind the original, it's cheaper than a Ruxtell 2 speed rear. Here's a picture of mine: z'd frame in the rear, suicide up front. Light and fast! http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q91/autodoc/modelthopup1.jpg http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q91/autodoc/modelthopup2.jpg
Books: Model T in speed and sport--- There's a 10 or 15 pamphlet set of speedster info currently available from a T club--advertised in Secrets, usually Dig through the book section of Model T catalogs, as several available books show early speed stuff. If you can imagine somethig for a T, someone sold it once. There's an infinity of equipment for every part of a T.
I just bought the model T speed secrets book... and model T in speed and sport, looks like there will be some good information in there! thanks DocAUTO an Bruce!.. DocAuto, read the article, that car is pretty sweet... and yes, I see that you run rocky mountains on it... still I would like to know, how fast do you get the buggy? or do you want to keep that a secret? haha.. this is going to be fun.
Oh, yes...there's a book on 1940's stock chassis T racing in Canada, will have to look for title of that one, and look for the website of the maniacs in Montana (State license plate motto: "At Least Our Cows Are Sane") who run an annual Model T long distance open road race...
i might know someone....you realize I'd be as excited about the project as you are.... i know where to get a frontenac head! now for you T guys what happens if you flat tow a T with the stock tranny do you lock it in neutral somehow I'm not really that "up" on how the T tranny works but i sort of understand how you would drive it and i "thought" you had to put the brake on to hold it in neutral?? would it cause problems for everything to be revolving without the motor going? i can forsee a bumper hitch flat towing a T speedster behind a 54 chevy
Can't flat tow a T without doing some "trickery", such as disconnecting the driveshaft...not a very quick and easy job.
thats what i figured would it work if you unhooked the brakes and locked the handle to hold the pedal in neutral? sorry if i'm way wrong, I've never driven one
Here is the latest T i have built. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1776185#post1776185 I also drive a white speedster 2000-3000 miles each summer. The T's are a illness that has no cure the less you know the more you wish to know and it never stops. The engine gets its oil from a splash system from the flywheel magnets throwing oil in a trough at the rear of the engine. If you dont wish to use te magneto ( i never do, and use a bosch front distributor) the the magnets can be removed and the flywheel lightened. Then you use four machined flappers to throw the oil. ( which works very well i must say after many miles in a t). There are actually two different rear axle ratios at 3.68 and a 3.00 to standard rear axle. Some aftermarket gears etc as well. Lots of aux trans to go behing the t transwith under, over and direct drives. Then a two speed ruxtel as well. Some ( at great cost) cut the t trans case off , seal the opening and use a model a or any other trans you wish. Two problems then surface one you lost your oil pump ( a vw pump will now mount on the end of the camshaft, and you lost your brakes as they are in a band setup in the transmission. ( the drum brakes on the rear axle are for emergency brake operation only. Study the systems , and get er done. Glad to help on any questions you may have. Glad to see someone else has the illness..
Man that's a lot of posts since I looked at this! I do have a Warford available with driveshaft and all the stuff you need, drop me a PM. In Warford high, the car will easily do over 65, but that's WAAAAY too fast for a car with marginal rear wheel brakes (and no it doesn't have Rockys!!). It's plenty quick with the "Z" head. I've got several overhead T's, but this one is a blast! Nothing newer than 1930 on the car......
unhook the emergency brake and lock it in nuetral = cooked tranny due to lack of lubrication (the plates in the the tranny are very much like an modern auto tranny) it would be like trying to flat tow a modern automatic.
Flat towing-dont do it! If you have an after market trans or rear end most have a neutral in them. This is usually found by accident when going down a steep hill. If you can find a real neutral it ok. The A bell housing will bolt on a 26/27 block-then use a A trans. An early chevy trans was popular conversion behind the T engine. Need to make up a u-joint using the male part of 2 T joints, but they just rivit together. You must shorten the torque tube of course. The big problem is adjusting you T clutches to get a good neutral so you can shift the thing. I have a Toyota Corolla 5 speed in my '14. I bought it that way so don't know much about it. It's fun, but I find myself using it more for slowing down.
if you have to flat tow a t,pull the spark plugs & leave it in high,otherwise it will burn up the tranny bands,I dont think I would try to go a long distance, but I have towed them home a few time like that
retro54, I have been working on my speedster for the 5 years on just Saturdays, only time I can work on it and we have a new baby boy at home. I have a stock T motor with a few modifaction, a Warford 3-speed is bolted behind the stock planetary and we run a 2 speed Ruckstell 2-speed rear axle with a 2.77:1 ring and pinion in it (12 forward gear and 6 gears in reverse). I agree with everyone else the less you know about model T's speedsters the more you want to know. The planetary trans work just like an automatic except your foot is the pump. When you release the emergency brake you have to hold the low clutch pedal in nuteral, to go to low you mash the clutch hard to the floor and to go into high you release the clutch altogether. To use reverse pull the e-brake about half way back till it holds the clutch pedal in nuteral, then mash reveverse pedal. your brake is a driveline brake, if you run a Warford, Chicago, Jumb Giant or Muncie you need to run large drummrocky Mountain brakes minimum. The trick to longevity of the bands in a T transmission is not letting the bands slip push them down as hard as possible or let out fully and they will last forever. My dad's 1919 T touring car ran around for 30 years with the old Scandanavian linings till yours truly stated driving it. I just installed new bonded linings in it to replace the ones I wore out over two summers of hard driving. One thing I would avoid is not using '22 hogs head as there is not much room to change the band through the inspection cover, the earlier and later one's have quite a bit more room and get quick disconnect bands (they have one side detaches and allows you to pull the linings around the drums and through the inspection cover)as you can change the bands through the inspection cover rather then taking off the hogshead. You can also retro fit a c-4 automatic or a simple 4 or 5-speed transmission to the back of the T engine but it takes a tremendous amout of machine work to do it. Don Shreve here in Portland runs a c-4 on his car as well as Roof OHV set-up, and I'll tell you one thing it ain't no slouch when you give her throttle. I've been on I-5 northboundwith hima t around75-80 mph! like other have said Mode Atransmissions cna be modifies to fit. there were many afte market companies out there in the 1920's and 30's that offered one that just replaced the planetary but today they are few and far between. I also have some nifty lowering brackets, a disc brake setup I have been building (still need to perfect) and just installed a rack & pinion steering that I use on my car. I have a set of drawings and photographs for them if you're interested. You need to check out the Northwest Vintage Speedster website (nwvs.org). Our club dedicated to the preservation and enjoyment of these wonderful machines. We have a technical section on there that covers supensions, hopping up motors, auxillary transmissions and speedster bodies, there are also pictures and desriptions of probably 100-150 club members cars and links to many of our events that take place here in the Northwest and Southwest regions. The cool part about Model T Fords is there nothing wrong with either restoring or in our case hopping one up. I love to see a nicly restored touring car running down the road but coolest thing was going for a ride in a fellow club members stock looking '26 full fendered touring car ( It has a hopped up Model T motor and Ruckstell rear axle with a high speed ring & pinion) blasting up a Rex Hill on Hwy 99w passing semi trucks and seeing the reaction on my wife's face as she has to hang on for dear life. Good luck in your pursuits. Chis Becker
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