Early Cadillac valve covers - development input please

We are currently working on a new product that some of you may be interested in. Even those of you not necessarily in the market for these may have some useful input to share.
The 331-429 Caddy engines have a decent finned aluminum cover available. However, they don't clear adjustable rockers. Or have the Caddy script. We are intending to solve both of those common requests with one product, and I would like some HAMB input on the design.

Firstly, they will have clearance divots similar to the old Hildebrandt covers (the bare aluminum covers). We have Studebaker and Isky (made for the Caddy back in the day) adjustable rockers on hand for fitting, to make sure all 3 common methods of adding adjustable rockers are supported. The other common retrofits (Ford, etc) are less bulky the bulkiest parts of the Stude and Isky rockers combined, so they should clear almost anything but modern aluminum roller rockers. Making them clear those would make them ugly, IMHO, and I don't really see any demand there anyway. Probably sell more to people who just want a cool looking cover, than to guys who need them for clearance anyway.

Secondly, we are intending to use the early Cadillac script that is connected across the bottom similar to the early Corvette script. The stock valve covers have 2 small fins at each end in line with the script. I have attached a pic of an aluminum SBC cover that uses this script with 2 small fins at each end (the blue one). There is a similar cover with the similar Corvette script with a lot more fins (the red one).
And yes, this will be an officially GM licenced product, not something that 'sorta looks close but isn't really right' just to avoid paying the General.

My thought is that combining the 2 styles (3 small even fins at each end in line with the script, then extra fins running the length) would look good, but I would like your input.

Of course, there will be a Hamber discount during the product launch.
PM me if you're interested in a set, and I'll put yuo on a list, but lets keep the design discussion on the board for all to see and respond to.

This is not a 'someday, maybe' project. I expect to have them (or at least usable prototypes) in time to be used on a Caddy powered Allard project being done in the spring at the historic motorsports show (www.historicmotorsportshow.com) in Britain, which will be getting a solid cam and a other goodies to boost the power. I have been given the impression that this car is actually raced, not a show car.
We were actually already working on the structural design (clearance, sealing, etc) before I was contacted by the guy doing the Allard, but it seems reasonable to try and have them done by then, instead of 'by sometime next summer'.
Thanks in advance for your input.
And thanks to whatever Hamber who's post I lifted the Hildebrandt pic from

 

Wow, Chris - I really like the idea of the 3 small fins combined with the extra fins that run the length. Could you snap a pic of a sketch of what you had in mind? You know, draw it on a napkin, and snap a camera phone pic, to help us visualize...

~Jason

 

the reason I run stock Chromed covers is I don't want the uninformed thinking I'm running a sbc. now don't expand your market with cad scripted sbc valve covers and I'm in

 

He's making Cadillac valve covers, not SBC ones. Those pics are for illustrative purposes.

~Jason

 

I think if you made the fins deeper like real cooling fins with more surface area along the sides of the fins, it would look better. When the fins are really shallow, they don't really give any sort of illusion that they're there for a reason.

Having them deeper would make it easier for people to paint in between the fins if they wanted to too.

 

those would be great. let me know when you have the finned ones for sale. id be interested

 

It would be nice to have some of the Caddy script valve covers that would fit the later style engines. I had to fab my own valve covers for my 500ci. At the time I couldn't find a set of the script valve covers so I used a set of the valve covers that had the block style lettering.
I basically cut the tops off the old valve covers and mated them to the stock valve covers from my 500ci engine. Here is a pic.



Bobby

 

The Chevy covers with Caddy script are already in existence, so I used them for illustrative purposes since they are very close in design to the Caddy covers. I think the poly-gonal shape they used is a bit ugly, we'll be using a shape closer to the Covers I used in the photo-chop here, or more like the Offy covers for the Caddy.

Rustybolts - when you say deeper fins - are you thinking like the depth/width of these Offy covers? That is what I was intending to get to eventually. If you have something a little different in mind, please elaborate.

Bobby - I like your resourcefulness there. I actually have a set I've started like that using the earlier script like what we are working on for these aluminum ones, for one of my 500s. We have done the big flat tops for the 500 engraved with that script, and then there are the new ones with fins remeniscent of the 30s Cads (no scripts) that are coming out soon. That is a picture of a test pour - the molds are done.

I PS'd 2 variations - 1 with the 3 fins close to the length of the originals, and one with longer ones for less open space.
I like the more rounded shape at the ends like the Offys, but I'm not sure how that will work out with rocker clearance. The squarer ends will definitely be more conducive to using the adapter to put them on the 500 (the more rounded ends on the Offys means you have to stack 2 pairs of adapters with shaft rockers). By more rounded, I mean the transition between the top surfce and the ends, as viewed from the side of the cover. Thoughts?

 

Any cost estimates?

 

Incidentally, the company we are working with on this project, already makes a plain 500 cover - I am hoping, if these go over well, to make a bolt-on 500 version that is visually similar (clearance divots and all). I'm starting with these because the 500 version would be purely for looks - these will fill a functional need that currently can only be dealt with by finding rare, high-dollar vintage parts, custom fabrication, or hokey adaptations (I've flipped the adapters around to put big aluminum 500 covers on a 500HP 331...).

 

yeah..deeper fins like the offy and hilde ones that are out there...also dimpling them would be nice if fitted on a pair of heads with funtioning adjustable rockers. Making side dimples just because they look cool and are not functional would not be the way to go. Lots of guys would buy a reasonably priced set dimpled and use them with their adj rockers. A non polished or polished aluminum finish would also be the way to go. Guys could paint them to their liking or polish them up. The non polished or polished ones would sell better than something that is pre painted.


Just my .02 I'd take a pair

 

I expect pricing to be ~ $250-$275 plain. They are smaller than the big 500 covers (which are $255), but it's a brand new tool that has to be amortized, and development and tooling ain't free. We got lucky on the existing 500 covers, and the tooling was amortized before the price of alum shot up, so the price stayed about the same.
On the Chevy version, retail is $220 and they charge $50 for powder coating and $100 for polishing I think. On the big 500 covers, they charge more than double that for coating or polishing. The early Caddy covers are smaller, like the Chevies, but I think they do the Chevy version in huge volume, even colors and polishing.
It won't be a $100 cover, but I am hoping to keep retail for plain aluminum ones no higher than the cost of the Offys ($295). The General gets like $25 each (or per pair - can't remember which), so that has to be in there, too.

 

Did you know these are supposed to be available again ?

http://www.hildebrandtusa.com/category_display.cfm?category_id=94

 

Cool - if I can get a hold of them, I will see if they make the Caddy covers. Not holding my breath, and not sure I would abandon this project anyway, but I will look into it. Hildebrandt seems t have no engine parts dealers - just truck accessory installers. If they bring back anything besides the SBC cover, I may have to become a dealer.

 

Yeah, I was thinking like the Offy ones. Deep fins like that look cool and look like they might actually help with cooling down the oil a little bit, and deep fins look more like something that would have been made back in the '50s or '60s.

Also, for some reason, if the bottoms of the slots in between the fins are U-shaped, it somehow looks better to me than if the bottoms were square or trapezoid shaped trenches with square corners. The U-shaped slots look like they're nice old style sand cast parts. If they look square on the bottom, it looks like new "billet" stuff that was made on a mill. U shaped slots with a rough sand cast surface looks even better. It makes the top polished tops of the fins stand out even more when the trenches between them are still rough. Paint sticks better to a rough surface too if you want to paint them.

I didn't catch if you were going to sand cast them or die cast them. If you die cast them, but make them look like an old sand casted part with curved trenches and no sharp inside corners, I think you'll have a winner.

Just some ideas.

 

Yup...they are making them for Caddy.there is a guy who's been selling them on ebay

 

I'd love to have some vintage look valve covers for my 500. My plan was to shop for solutions during 2009.

 

I was thinking of making 331 and 500 covers that look like this. You beat me to it and saved me the trouble.

I'll buy 4 or 5 sets if you make them.

 

i agree with this idea (U shapeed slots w/rough surface between fins)and i,m game for at least 1 set....

 

I talked to the Hildebrandt folks a couple of days ago. They are using the original casting molds and do very limited runs of just a few sets as the outfit which does the casting dislikes working with the old molds. Hildebrandt sells most to suppliers who put them on ebay. Hildebrandt will sell the few sets they presently have for $399 each. Put me down as interested in the new project.

 

Maybe you should talk to them about this scanning service:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316230

Dude's got a 3D scanner, and could scan those molds so all they'd have to do is give the caster the file that the scanner guy makes and they can immediately make mew molds and use those from now on!

~Jason

 

You can still buy Offenhauser, Eelco, Moon/Holmes, and Hildebrandt valve covers and stock the ones look great chromed.

If you want to make something for the early Cads how about a 2x2 and 3x2 intake manifold that no one is producing.

 

I'm interested in a set for my 390.
I'm not a fan of the Offy style. I prefer the style shown in post #18.
Gary

 

I really like the ones Piero has on "live wire". Stock script, but dimpled.
Any speed parts for an early cad that you make that look like ones that were actually made back in the good old days...I'm interested. If they're a new interpretation of vintage stuff, probably not as interested.
Glad someone is doing something for old cadillacs though...damn this stuff is getting hard to find, and expensive.

 

I like Piero's too. They are probably stock covers with dimples added, and them chromed. Not to step on my own toes, but this is the Hamb. There are several tech articles on making die sets around here, and that could probably be done with a ball peen hammer and a female die, and then sent out for chroming. I was actually considering that for the engine going in my Riv before we decided making the aluminum ones would be practical, after seeing Piero's and a few of the threads where guys had made their own dies for stuff, before we decided that these aluminum ones would be practical.

I am glad that the Hildebrandt stuff is available. I spoke to them on the phone and became a dealer yesterday.
Nonetheless, from the response on this thread, it seems that there is quite a bit of demand for my concept, guys who would really like the Caddy script, so the project is moving forward anyway. The more there is available, the better for you guys, so since it looks like we can at least sell enough of these to not lose big on it, we are moving forward on the project. Besides, it saves me a whole Saturday making dimples on the steel covers for my Riv

These will be a sand casting, not a die-casting. If I thought i could do a die casting, and make it look right, and sell enough to cover the cost of the tooling, I would prbably consider it. Maybe once I know more about the processes involved, we will look into that in future projects.

 

Can you copy the Cadillac crest like the example without copyright or license?
...re-read the beginning, you have copying covered...
The older "Egyptian" one might be cool.
Getting patterns the right size could be difficult.
Colored inserts like the example would be distinctive.

 

I'd be interested as well, as long as they retain a vintage look.



Marcy

 

Hey - the HAMB isn't the only market for these... I run across posts online all the time where folks are pining for these... or at the vert least, valve covers with the older script on them.

~Jason

 

All emblems and logos are trademarked. I don't know the expiration rules - they haven't used that early style one in a lot of years. But the crest in the center appears to be the same (as it should be), so the trademark shouldn't be expired. In a low-volume deal, you may be able to get away with something like that, but a: I wouldn't want to put our business on the line on that bet and b: my personal feeling is it would still be a form of theft. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a one off for myself, but selling it without paying the rightful owner of the art, just isn't right.
I do like that one, though. It would have to be 2 different valve covers, with the bottom of the emblem facing the front end of the engine and the top end facing the back end of the engine. I think it would look really cool. Colored inserts would be expensive, unless we had it done overseas. Or each customer could hand paint them with model paint

Got a picture? I'm always looking for ideas.

 

I would like to have a set of as cast valve covers if I put the 500 in my s10. I like cast parts as opposed to polished.