After 2 babies and a move, I finally had some time recently to get back to working on the Wam Bam Thank You Van. Unfortunately most of my time has been spent trying to reacquaint myself with the project and finding all my tools and parts after the move, so I haven't gotten as far as I would have liked, but progress is progress! I'm hoping to get it to the Pileup this year but I keep running into snags. I was working on drilling out this very stuck bolt when my wife went into labor with the twins. I have most of the new brake lines run for the new dual master cylinder. Due to its location under the floor where the 7' shift rods run, emergency brake, spedo cable, etc all run, it's kind of an awkward process. The combination valve is adding to the complications, but it's not that bad... just more bends than on a car. Here's what it looked like with the stock MC for comparison I converted the front drums to disk brakes. That was pretty easy, but it took awhile getting the new studs in and the hub mated to the rotor... but it was a helluva lot easier with a shop press than with a hammer on the side of the road...like we had to do when my wife's 51 cracked off 3 studs in PA and the shop wouldn't let us use their press. Elizabeth needed a break from the younguns and came out to help help with some of the assembly. here's what I started with The guy who made the dual MC adapter told me I would need to drop the stabilizer bar down about 1/2" to clear the MC, so I spent a couple of hours making some shims... that I didn't need! It easily clears the MC. I'm trying to replace the tie rod ends, but they're STUCK on there good. I have to replace them because a) it's a good idea, and b) I damaged one trying to remove a stuck nut. They're soaking in Kroil right now. I heated the tube with a propane torch first, but haven't had much luck yet. I stuck a stock Lincoln header on to check for clearances and it looks like the pipes will need an immediate bend to clear the clutch fork and shift rods. I hate automatics, but I'm beginning to understand why everyone goes with the easy route on these conversions. When you step on the clutch pedal, the pedal arm pivots on the frame and PULLS a very long thin rod, which pivots a z-bar, which in turn PUSHES on the clutch fork. That works great with a I6... but not so great with a v8. The headers run through the point where the z-bar would attach and pivot on the engine. Early SBFs have a pivot point, but mine's an 89, so I'm SOL. I need to make a bracket with a pivot and attach it to the engine, then I need to move the z-bar's frame mount forward a few inches. The long thin rod will need to be shortened or replaced with a cable. Any suggestions for a cable? I can't seem to find anything but throttle cables which may not be strong enough. I know the airplane cable that holds my tailpiece on my upright bass can hold over 1000 pounds, so that's a possibility. Here's a 170 (R) and a 240 (L) zbar I got the electric fuel pump mounted. I cut out the floor for header clearance and better airflow over the engine (anything to keep it cooler!). Here's the passenger side with my ceramic coated headers. HotRodChassis is building an aluminum radiator for me which will hopefully be done very soon. It should looks something like this when he's done. OleMuleSkinner is going to modify my Mustang tank to fit. I just need to move the filler neck from the top to the side. My friend Matt is going to help me set up the serpentine system. Then it's mainly wiring and getting the driveshaft shortened. Here's the shaft next to a Bic pen for comparison. It's 1-2" too long Will it make it to the Pileup? I hope so, but there's a LOT of work to do and very little time left. Elizabeth has been very gracious in giving me time to work on it while she watches the kiddies. I have a great paint surprise for it for the Pileup, so I REALLY hope I can pull this off!
many shops that custom make hydraulic hoses and such also make custom morse cables. the price shouldn't be too bad. it would also be easy to convert to an hydraulic clutch.
I actually have all the stuff to do a hydraulic clutch conversion, but it will require a LOT more fabrication and due to where the exhaust exits, it may just cook the slave cylinder.
What about using an internal hydraulic throwout bearing? Nothing in the way and only a line that you can locate away from exhaust and moving parts.
Not sure I fully comprehend your clutch linkage, but maybe this will get your gears turning. As far as cable, I used the guts from an old clutch cable from a modern car. It was clean and had a plastic coating. However, most hardware stores carry steel braided cable used for clothes lines in various thickness. All of them thicker than any throttle cable. I am using an SROD trans myself. Since the clutch fork has to be pulled forward, I just attached a pulley on a bracket mounted on the frame to reverse the action. So when I push down the pedal, it pulls the cable around the pulley and pulls the fork forward. Not sure if that's clear or not.
Hmmmm...I think there was a kit you could buy for Army Jeeps that was like that, only it used a linked chain like a bike with a sprocket instead of a pulley!
Well, I already have pretty much everything I need, and a internal hydro bearing would be like starting over... and spending a lot of money to do it. Simply shortening one rod (or replacing it with a cable) and lengthening another and adding a bracket seems like the best (quick, easy, cheap) solution to me. Cable and hydraulic linkages seem much more likely to fail or have problems than a mechanical linkage, too. I like the Jeep sprocket/pulley idea though! Let's see if I can explain an Econoline clutch... the pedal extends through the floor and pivots on the frame. A tab on the pivot is linked to a long rod that goes back along the outer frame. That rod connects to the z-bar, which pivots on a peg attached to the motor. The opposite tab on the z-bar has a pointer rod on it that pushes on the clutch fork. When you step on the clutch pedal, the first rod is pulled forward, thus rotating the z-bar and pushing the clutch pedal. It's weird, but it works! As for the disk brake conversion, there are several different ways of doing it... from cheap and complicated, to simple and bolt on. I chose to use D&D's brake conversion which involves his mounting bracket and another bracket the moves the sway bar up a bit. The rest is off the shelf modern rotors, calipers, etc. As long as you have the Econo spindle and hub, you're good to go.
WOW...with that notch in the floor, what are your plans for the dog house, and if you widen the dog house what will you do for seat. God these conversions are a pain in the ass!
yeah... a white engine is a poor choice, but I'm a glutton for punishment. No one will see it anyway. *sigh* I hate automatics. My 59 has an automatic and it is the first auto I've ever owned, new or old cars. The notch in the floor doesn't affect the passenger seat, but the rear leg of the driver's seat now has nowhere to bolt to. I need to look more closely, but there is a simple solution. I will either shorten the leg and mount it to the new boxed section of the doghouse, or I will flip the leg around, or use the legs off another Econo seat. See, some Econo seat legs meet the floor like a J and others like an L if that makes since.
Last weekend I gave up on trying to unstick the rusty original tie rod, so I replaced it with a brand new one from Speedway ($48). Thanks for the tip, guys! I got more done this weekend... thanks to my wife for watching the girls so I could have garage time! I dropped off the driveshaft to be shortened. The distance between the rear end yoke and the transmission is 27". Guess how long the driveshaft/slip yoke is? 27"!! Perfect fit, but no room for travel, so they're going to shorten it 1/2"-1" I got the headers fully mounted, and I installed the fuel pressure sensor... which was fun given that it has to fit into a little engine nook that it's too big for, but I figured it out. I disassembled the carb and cleaned it. Whoever ran that thing last had a VERY dirty gas tank. Not ony was it full of rust sediment, but there were leaves and stuff in the floats! I measured the brake push rod... 1/2-1" too short. Seems to be a theme with this project. Raygun said he'll help me extend that push rod or make a new one. I mounted the aluminum radiator that RayGun at Hot Rod Chassis built for me. Very nice! I stopped by a U-Pull-It and pulled a 130amp 3g alternator from a 94 Thunderbird that was recently wrecked. $32. Got it tested at AutoZone and it was good. I got the serpentine system set up. It looks like I'll only need a slight bubble in the dogbox to clear the alternator, if at all. Got the acessory gauges installed. I don't know what the 2 outer gauges are (no markings), but the center (voltmeter) is a new SW Greenline gauge. I still have the ampmeter that matches the other 2. That's just a temporary mounting for the gauges. After the Pileup I'll repair the dash where someone mangled it trying to stuff a new stereo into it... then remount the gauges. I got the dog box all cut up for header clearance and improved airflow for better cooling. After the Pileup I'll box all this in and make it look nice. Here you can see the top view and see what I mean when I say I "stuffed" the motor in the van! Finally, I decided I could procrastinate no more and had better figure out how to hook up the clutch. I started fabricating a bracket for the z-bar/equalizer bar to pivot on. I got the 2 main supports made and mounted, but couldn't get them tacked. I just couldn't get an adequate arc. Felt like a bad ground, but I was working with good clean, shiney metal and the ground was only 2" from where I was welding. I wish I had a gas rig. Here's the equalizer bar loosely mounted in the stock position. As you can see, that ain't gonna work. I'm going to move it forward about 3". You can see my bracket in the background. I still need to add to it, then attach the pivot (which luckily I saved from the 170!). Some friends came over last night and looked at it and both thought I'd be better off with a cable clutch. I don't really trust cables. I've never heard of a mechanical link failure, but hear about clutch and throttle cables breaking all the time. I think they're right though, so I'm looking into it. In the meantime, I'll continue fumbling through my attempt at engineering and fabrication. Oh yeah, here are the front wheels.
I would also look at a hydraulic clutch set up. It is not that expensive and may well save you time and with 4 kids I can appreciate how expensive that is! I was given some very good advice on an earlier thread. A wilwood master cylider and slave cyinder is only a few hundred bucks, the slave cylinder is a pull varient so it could be fitted behind the bellhousing rather than in front giving you more room and less likely hood of cooking it. Work looks great, let me know if you want any part numbers for the clutch stuff. P.
i looked into the Willwood stuff. That's a lot of money. It will be easier to make the clutch work as Ford designed it... or retrofit a cable. I actually have some brand new GM hydro clutch parts, but it will still be easier to slightly modify what I have, than to try to get an MC in there. To make a clutch MC work will require more fabrication and welding at the pedal than I can do, especially since I'm running out of time. There's really not much room up front in these Econos.
Go boy..........GO!!!!!!!! Glad to see you're back at it with the kids and all. Can't wait to see it done.
Cable clutches are proven to work well, as long as you don't go crazy with a mongo pressure plate and have reasonble cable routing. Try speedway's web site, which has their full range including stock car. Very few low level stock cars use Z-bar style linkage, they're almost universally cable, and the racing cables are fairly beefy. No need to reinvent the wheel with clothesline cable and such. Speedway, JR motorsports, and other mail order racing houses, that's where to go. Good luck
Nothing crazy. It's a 60s Mustang clutch. I found a decent Ford Racing cable on Summit for about $40. I don't know why I couldn't find it before. Anyway, I think I can bypass the z-bar and connect the cable to the original Econoline rod that goes directly to the pedal. Then all I have to do is make two little brackets to hold the cable and make a slight modification to the fork so it will accept the cable.
Make it cable! Morse cables are used in race cars and boats. Stronger than you will need by far! Set it up so the pedal has a leg that extends below the pivot point to pull (cable going forward), or drill above the pivot point and set up a cable flange behind the pedal (again, pulling). Do searches and look at how others have done it. Here's one http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2002/07/clutchcable/
I don't need to. The stock Econoline set up is designed to pull, but it was all mechanical linkages and pivots. All I need to do is hook up the cable to the stock mechanisms.
Man, I can relate. I took the drivers door of my 58 F100 to fix a rust hole three years ago. Wound up taking the whole front clip off and putting in a new engine. That's about as far as I got. One baby (now two years old) and a new house later, I'm finally finding some time to work on it. I really hope to see your van at the Hunnert car. I really hope to see my truck at the Hunnert car. Good luck
I beginning to have my doubts if it will make it to the Pileup. I was going to work all day Saturday and Sunday this weekend and had to pack it in early both days. I still have a lot of little piddly things to do (e.g, pressure test & install gas tank, install radiator, etc) and a few major things to do...e.g., disassemble disk brakes & repress, somehow build an exhaust sytem (starting with severely modifying the flange that bolts to the collector), figure out the clutch linkage (see below), figure out a way to attach the fan, and of course, the mother of all PITA jobs... wiring. I went to mock up the clutch cable the other day and it looks like it's just as big of a PITA as using the solid linkage. To use the cable, I need to build a frame mounted bracket in the front, and another bracket for where the cable goes to the fork. That's the troublesome one. There's no good place to build a bracket because of the exhaust and linkages running through the area. It looks like the easiest way would be to extend a bracket off the frame reaching over to the trans. I think finishing the solid linkage I started may actually be easier. My next 2 weekends are completely full, and every night this week I'm watching the twins... although I may sneak out to the garage with the monitor while they're sleeping (shhhh... don't tell Elizabeth!)
It looks like my doubts were well-founded. There's about a 1% chance the Wam Bam Thank You Van will make it to the Pileup this year. I've been out there working on it every night for about an hour after the girls go to sleep, but I keep running into snags, and now I have a really bad cold which has really slowed me down considerably. I MIGHT be able to get enough done this weekend to get it to the show, but it will probably be semi-dangerously cobbled together using original wiring, etc. That is... Assuming there are no leaks anywhere and all components work. It's OK, I still have the 59, but I wanted to bring them both. I knew all along that if the van didn't make it, it would be close... and it's REALLY close. Oh well, it's a lot to do by myself while watching 2 babies! The 4 major things left to do are: wiring, clutch brackets, repress the wheel studs and exhaust. The rest is all little stuff (e.g., bleed brakes, install shocks) Wiring is no big deal, but it's time-consuming. The exhaust can be cobbled together with flex pipe, but the lead pipes need to be dramatically modified first. The studs are just a hair cockeyed and need an extra pump on the shop press. This is kind of a time-consuming PITA. The clutch cable brackets need to be made. The original clutch system worked something like this. I simply attached one end of a Mustang cable to the clutch rod and made a bracket. No biggie (it's limp because nothing is bolted in or adjusted). It's held in by a c-clamp for now while I figure out the best placement. Here's a side view of the trans. You may start to get the idea of why making the trans/clutch bracket is such a pain... and why so many v8 Econos use automatics. I hate automatics. A bracket will need to extend as far out as the fork, while clearing the shift arms/rods as they move, speedo cable, etc. The clutch cable is resting on the speedo cable. Here are some views from the back. This may give you a better sense of the spatial layout I'm going to try and mock up a bracket this weekend and get it welded... if I can find steel thick enough. It shouldn't be too big of a deal, but it will be oddly shaped. In the meantime, here are some other things I got done. Fuel pressure regulator Fuel pump and a corner of its relay. Yes, that filter is a Fram, and yes, I should replace it with one that isn't a POS. The throttle cable is in, but it's disconnected in the pic because I need to shorten it about 1" to make everything nice and taut. I finally got the radiator installed... only to discover that the fan I spent hours modifying to fit... didn't. It fit the radiator perfectly... at least I did that right... but it hit the water pump pulley! I never even measured that since it looke like I had plenty of room. Lesson learned. Fuel lines are all run. If you look hard, you can see the copper line running to the oil pressure gauge. It took 10' of line to run that far, although I can probably trim it to 8-9' eventually I modified my Mustang tank, and Kevin (HotRodChassis) welded it up for me. No leaks, but it turns out that the Mustang and Econoline tanks have identical dimensions... but the sending units are totally different, so I had to order a new unit. I painted the tank with POR15, then sprayed it with truck bedliner. It looks like it may need another coat in the pic.
I've made a little progress lately. I pulled the 2 heaters out and had the radiator shop check them out. The front one was good, but the rear one was shot and not repairable. They recored it for me. Here's the rear heater on a homemade stand made of a vintage (and moldy and rotten) zinfandel grape crate. I have plans to make a cool stand for it. I had to take the headlight assembly apart so I could access the front heater core and ducting assembly. As you can see the front of the nose is all there is before the interior of the van. Why yes, the floor IS as bad as it looks. I decided to add a lil' bling to my rusty crusty rear wheels so they go a little better with the Cragars up front. Later I will blast and paint the other set of rims I have and transfer the chrome ring and lugnuts over and use the crusty wheels and tires for racing. I solved my wheel/hub fitment problem, so I can reassemble the front end. I modified the lower shock mounts and installed 1 shock*. The battery cables, choke and throttle cables are run. The HRCC-built custom aluminum radiator is in with an electric fan. The coolant hoses are all run except for the heater hoses (just waiting to get the cores back). All the brake lines and fuel lines are run, and the gas tank is in, as you can see in this pic. Yes, that is plumbers strap holding up the tank. It is rated high enough and I doubled it up. The old tank was only held up with a single layer. It's not ideal, but it will do until I can get a decent set of straps bent up (they don't make replacements). *The passenger side rear shock was installed incorrectly years ago and the bold is solidly rusted into the frame. I'll get it out later, but for now the old shock remains. Thanks to Kevin's (Hot Rod Chassis & Cycle) tools and mad welding skills, I finally built a clutch cable bracket. It's far from perfect and as Kevin said, "way over-engineered, but at least it won't break". I need to add another speed hole or 2. The large hole in the middle is where the cable assembly passes through and attaches. I had to do a little grinding to get the head pipe to fit in, but now it does and I can start on the exhaust. I tossed the dogbox over the motor to see how things were looking. It's a TIGHT squeeze! I may need to make some more modifications to that puppy (pun intended) and maybe re-route some of the cables to clean it up a bit. Finally, when I couldn't be out in the garage, but had some free time, I worked on some painting. Here's my tach cup. With a little white pinstriping separating the colors, it will be my little red, white and blue American "Rising Sun". Here's the fire extinguisher mounted right behind the driver's head. With the engine sitting right next to me, I want a fire extinguished close by! Why "Oh no!"? What else are you going to say if you need a fire extinguisher? "I call him 'Blinky'"
mr. hellfish. i going nuts. could you please tell what i need to convert to disc brakes (the cheap way) like u did on my econo. can't seem to find anyone with good info. your time is greatly appreciated. email is tdicar@comcast.net. thanks tony phone is, if u don't mind 724.652.7372 thanks again
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