ED ROTH-Which one is the best?........

I like em all, but the Mysterion is my favorite.

 

Roth's cars are so strange and flashy the works tend not to be noticed--but Roth was highly original, diverse, and eclectic in his machinery. Look underneath--pure early Ford hotrod, Mini-Cooper, motorcycle, FWD setups in back, '49 Olds--I think he was one of the world's most creative mechanical scroungers. I'd love to see a show of just Roth's chassis designs.

 

Like Germ says... "Texas is the reason..."



I'm beginning to see now that NOT gathering in Ed's name would be a mistake... It's painfully obvious that is EXACTLY what we need to do on the 5th/6th.



Brush, I know you will be there w/us in spirit... along with kindred spirits like ToyGhoul, Unk, Sk8Fink, ScaryLarry, DrJ, and more.



What bugs the hell out of me are the fellow Texans on this board who haven't even bothered to at least say "Gee, I'd like to go but...". It makes me appreciate all of you who are taking the time and trouble to come support this get together even more.



Dan, thank you for making the point you did... Ed was a great man who's trials and triumphs would make lesser men crumble. He never claimed everything he created was gold... in fact, he was quite adamant about burying the mistake pile and trying newer approaches rather than relying on old tricks and follow-the-leader patterns. In a way, those two posts had a positive effect on Kali and I... it gave us a strong reminder of how much we really miss that crazy old German.



DrJ... thanks for the perspective nudge. It's the whole "red-flag-in-front-of-a-bull" thing.

 

Wagen Meister

 

I really like the beatnik bandit.

However, those of you that don't appreciate the work of an Ed Roth, show your ignorance. The point of Roth's creations were to stretch the limits of automotive art and function. If you can't respect his work and see that what he did was amazing and will never ever be dublicated. Then I have a few gallons of flat black primer for sale. I'll practically give it to you. This way you can be sure to be boring, and stagnate for the rest of your sad little lives.

If you put yourself into a 1960's frame of mind. Ed Roth was reinventing the hot rod every year. His body of work boogles the mind.

If only the discovery channel existed in 1960 to shamelessly promote Ed, where would Rat Fink be today?

 

I look at them more as custom/hotrod oriented "Kinetic Sculpture" more than an attempt at "reinventing the hotrod"
That's a good thing by the way....
I see Roth primarily as the artist he was and he was building Art that happened to be functional,(most of them anyway) that looked like a hotrod.
That's why I like the Road Agent the most. It looks the least, or at the tme I saw it when it was new, the least like anything else anyone had ever called a "car", and yet it was.

"If only the discovery channel existed in 1960 to shamelessly promote Ed, where would Rat Fink be today?"

Good question!

 

A discovery channel show, I selfishily wish one would happen.
i also look at the cars as 4 wheel art. working with what ya have, makeing what ya have work and look cool all at the same time, I dont belive there would be a "Freebie" on an Ed show more like a "i found this in the scrap pile"

 

Regarless if you like Ed's designs or not, you have to admit that he really pushed the envelope with his designs... Even Barris' designs (from the same era) were always based on production vehicles. Ed took it a step further and built stuff that were original. I'll be the 1st to admit that I don't like all of his designs but cars like The Outlaw, Mysterion and the Beatnik Bandit are milestones in the genre... each reaching further than the one that preceded it.

 

**gazing up, in awe*** Mark Moriarity is my hero!

Although I appreciate the craftsmanship it took to make his cars - I just don't like the bubble top look.. I'm probably in the minority in that regard.

I like Tweedy Pie & Little Jewel

Becca

 

what about his Megacycle to me that is not only a cool concept but functional too

 

yellow fang by far for me, i love that ol drag race shit,then probably megacycle then beatnick.honestly if you stop and look at most all of them there seems to be something on each of them that make you say"man whoda thunk it"ya gotta give that man props for his vision and his confidence to say "fuck it im gonna build this"and not care what people thought.always admired that about mr.roth,because there were some cars idid'nt care for but admired for that reason.

 

Mazooma finks!!!!

First of all I have to say thank you to the Brush for bringin' this subject up. What a fine tribute to our large father. Everyone on this here thread is an inspiration, except those who don't appreciate the finer things in life.

Johnny... glad to hear you plan to keep the torch burnin' on the 5th and 6th wish I could make it but I figure we'll hook up in Manti in April. While I'm at it I gotta say that this thread needs to be linked to Johnny's thread for his book of great stuff. If ya haven't checked it out here's a link.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=185712&fpart=&PHPSESSID=

Ya know the thing that is pretty kewl about Ed's creations is most of the collection is still around and a lot of it can still be seen.

We have ta thank guys like Gege and Mark for takin' good care of this stuff and keepin' track of it.

Rix2Six made a great point. Ed was like no other if ya look at most Ed contemporaries they were takin' vehicles already in production and modifin' the stuff. Ed was a true artist he didn't care of what other folks thought, he built stuff for himself and no one else. If ya look at Barris and some of the other guys. They were buildin' stuff for the Movies and they were producin' the stuff off of other guys concepts. That's not to say that Ed didn't have a little conceptual help from guys like Ed Newton, but most of the time Roth would build the car first he used all of his artistic senses and jumped into the goo with both feet, he felt and sculpted his Creations until he was happy with what he saw. Scratch built from the ground up a true visionary, king of the junk yard where, one mans trash is another mans treasure.

"I build the Car First then make a Drawing, are You Paying Attention Detroit ?" Ed Roth

Note: I'm gonna be throwing some links in my post here, hope that ya all don't mind. Some of ya might bash me for self promotion or whatever. If ya gawt a problem with it keep it to yerself I'm just tryin' to share some information.

Anyway this is a hard one.... hmm which one of Ed's creations was the best? I think I might need to categorize the collection and pick a favorite from each group. I'm gonna try and do this in chronological order.

Conventional non Conventional Hot Rod:
I'd have to pick the Outlaw. This was the car that spawned Ed's ability to sculpt with his hands and familiarized himself with fiberglas in order to express the visions that were in his head. Even though the car was somewhat conventional it still impress the heck out of me this was cutting edge man.

Here's a little background info on the Outlaw.
http://www.ratfink.org/outlaw/index.html

Some of you were wondering about Outlaw Bodies and Nose units. Jimmy C, Ilene, Robert Williams and I gawt together and started producing these kits awhile back.
http://www.kustomart.com/outlaw.html
http://www.ratfink.org/outlawproject

Mark has done a perfect job in recreating his.
Here is a step by step look at how Mark built his Outlaw.
http://www.ratfink.org/outlawproject/marks.html

The kits allow one to either clone an Outlaw or build ones own creation inspired by the Large Father. So far there are 6 units that are being built. I can't wait to see what folks will come up with. Fritz on this thread also has one he's werkin' on and there is one guy who building a kit and calling it the Samurai with a theme to match. It would be great if say 3 years from now if we could get them all together for some type of display.

I'm even doing my own version I start tearing down the engine tomorrow.
http://www.ratfink.org/altlaw


Innovative Design:
The Beatnik Bandit.
This car really shook up the industry as far as Ed's ability to work with fiberglas it really blew some minds.
http://www.ratfink.org/roth/national/bandit01b.gif
The way the car flowed with it's smooth lines sorta looked like sumpthin' from outer space. Ed has always had some fascination with UFO's. I think it stemmed from when he was in the air force the whole Roswell deal was goin' down at that time. Ed always talked about UFO motors and how he really wanted to find one. My favorite thing about the car is the the way you controlled it you didn't drive it you had to pilot the thing. Ed's Bubble top design really started something not only with his own concepts but look how many other designers he influenced. Even today folks are building bubble tops inspired by Roth.
http://www.aeclassic.com/shifters/antiblessing/page4.html
http://www.ratfink.org/vehicles/futurian/index.html
http://www.spritzbyfritz.com/bubmain.html

Artsy Fartzy:
The Druid Princess
I for some reason have always liked the Druid Princess. I think it's because it never got a lot of press and it has always has some kind of mystique about it. Ed toured with the Druid and The Stealth 2000 the year before he passed away. To me the car says California why don't really know. Maybe cuz the car reminds me of the pacific beach some how. I think it may be because the carriage reminds me of the carousel in Santa Monica and the rear fenders remind me of surf boards and the fact that the car was built for a california TV show. There is also pretty interesting story about how Robert Williams came up with the name of the car only in California. Anyway It has always been one of my dreams to see the Druid side by sid with the Munster Coach and the Dragula.
http://www.mrgasser.com/druidprincess.htm
http://www.river-road.net/oldcars/oldcustoms/3.html

Well I got a few more of Ed's creations I'd like to make comments about but Becca and I gotta go out and show her hearse for the first time at this little local cruize in.

You folks have really inspired me today, I usually don't post a whole bunch on this board but if ya don't mind I'd like to continue later on when I get the time.

Thanx,

Tha Moldy One

 

Interesting read, Moldy.

I gotta confess I really like the Druid Princess too. Somehow its the only car Roth made that is 100% online with his weirdos and monsters. What I allways wanted to see was Druid Princess the way she might have looked if she became the Adams Family Coach.

Someday I'll paint my take on it...

 

Moldy...I decided against any books....the thread stays here for all the members to enjoy....not my job to convince the world of anything...maybe with Ryan's okay I'll link it from our site or something....

 

I thought it was directed at me, -and Im both soft ,sensitivepudgy and wudgy, -and come to think of it, -windy to the extreme.

 

I would have to go with Mysterion also

39

 

Not trying to bash on anyone here so don't take this question personally or any other wrong way, but I'm curious about what it is about Mysterion that makes people choose it as their favorite. I'm curious for several reasons, one being that those choosing it, for the most part don't say why.
Is it because it "Mysteriously" disappeared?
Is it because of the very radical and at the time new approach front end with the cantilevered headlight pod?
Or is it because of the "awesome factor" of the twin engines?
If the latter, then if Roth had built a car with four engines would that have been way up on the favorite list too?
Bigger and more is always better factor?

Roth figured the covered engine is what made the Orbitron a dud on the show circuit, (how do they figure that anyway, do they do a Neilsen poll on it?) so that would support the "more engine(s) is always better" theory but I think it was the ungainly length of it and the slingshot seating when there was actually room in front of the rear axle for the seats, in otherwords, it was the whole package that was less successful. I loved the red-blue-green lights idea on Orbitron though!

 

Here's my reasoning for liking the Mysterion, Dr.J....I dig the cyclop headlight, the bubble top and the "Starliner-like" rear fins and the way they dip down into the concave side panel. I also really like the fact that it is powered by TWO Ford motors...hell, usually people give you a hard enough time for ONE Ford motor! I like the aesthetics of the frame, too, even though that was the worst engineered part of the car.

 

i like the rotar myself.

 

The Wind Bag is Back....

I think it's the twin mills that wow's everyone with the Mysterion more power arr.arr.arr.....as I remember folks used to also refer to it as the Cyclops?

The trade mags show the Road Agent on exhibit before the Orbitron there's rumor that says the Orbitron was actually built around the same time as the Road Agent. However it's not quite certain sure which one was finished first. Maybe Mark or Gege can fill us in on that fact.

The Orbitron is another mysterious vehicle. I had a conversation with Ed when we were putting together a list of owners and the whereabouts of the Roth collection. The Orbitron is sorta missing, Ed thought that it might be owned by some recluse and located somewhere in Texas. Think Mark was tryin' to track it down there for awhile. Ed's background electromagnetic energy and his artistic study of color really shined with his RGB light setup. The theory of additive color mixing threw everyone for a loop and kept folks guessing.
http://www.rgbworld.com/color.html


Rear Engine Machines:
The Road Agent. No big motor up front it was all in the rear. This was most likely the car that changed Ed's way of thinkin'. Ed used to give lectures on the efficiency of power ratio to the rear wheels and general fuel consumption of a front engine drive train vs. a rear powered trans axel set up. Was Ed really on to something? After building the Road Agent Ed produced over 20 more vehicles. I believe there were only 2 the Druid Princess and the Beatnik Bandit II (maybe 3 if The Orbitron was finished after the Road Agent) that had an engine in the front. I remember overhearing a comment he made once about the new VW's and how they got it all wrong why change the wheel it was never broke. When Revell first issued The Road Agent I believe it out sold all the other Roth models produced in it's first run. Hmm no big engine up front... To quote Dr. J "It looks the least, or at the time I saw it when it was new, the least like anything else anyone had ever called a "car", and yet it was".

I cut my teeth on VW's and Corvairs when I first started driving cuz they were a dime a dozen and really easy to maintain.

If ya wrecked the thing ya could either go and buy another one or they were real cheep ta fix. And to think I voted for Ralph Nader.

A little off the subject.

Ed built the Road Agent in 1964. Rear engine dragsters really didn't hit the scene until 1971 after that drag racing was never the same. Guys wanted more power; front engine slingshots couldn't take the stress and would do weird things and the engines were so big the drivers couldn't see where they were going. The answer would be to put the engine in the rear it was another "Big Daddy" that brought this concept to fruition.
http://www.wediditforlove.com/sitemap-RED.html

Yellow Fang:

Speakin' of Drag Racin' If it wasn't for Ed's generosity the project would have never happened.
The Bushmaster Remembers.
http://www.ratfink.org/yellow_fang/yellowfang.html


Did Ed design the First Hybrid?:
Pink Bazooka

Ed's trike designs we're pretty awesome, In fact the Ed held one of the only patents out there for the American Beetle.
http://www.aeclassic.com/RothTrikeRevisited/a0001_JPG.html
http://www.aeclassic.com/rothtrikes

Ed trikes were extremely economical, pretty comfortable and most of them hauled butt.

I have three that come to mind the first is the Pink Bazooka.
This vehicle got like no press what so ever. I don't know Ed might have been just messin' around when he designed the thing. He didn't even publicize it that much. Most people thought it was a joke yet here we sit 30 years later and the big three are designing hybrids that use very similar concepts to that of Roth.

This wasn't just some hopped up golf cart it had it all. The Pink Bazooka was solar powered and had a honda 50 or 90 cc motor to power it when the cell petered out. Ed was a true visionary and way ahead of his time.

Gege used to own the Pink Bazooka he's the one that could really fill us in. Got anything ya can tell us?

Moldy

 

either the Boydster or the Chezoom

kidding of course.....................

 

Brush, -I know, I was only kidding.

DrJ: Dont forget the original box art on the Mysterion modelkit. Pretty convincing stuff!

 

Awright! Who gave Moldy diet pills again?

 

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DrJ: Dont forget the original box art on the Mysterion modelkit. Pretty convincing stuff!

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Actually I did forget it, or never let it get learned in the first place!
I used to like customizing the model cars, and I spent most of my early teens doing that in the garage (kept my mind off the girls who wouldn't talk to a "nurd" anyway) After buying the Silhouette and the BeatnikBandit and AlaKart and being frustrated by the fact thre was nothing left to do to them in the customizing arena that would make them look better i quit buying models of already customized cars. BB especiallu frustrated me because it didn't look right without the panel painting and the flat decals wouldn't really follow the compund curves of the car so it went into the parts bin.
I have a '65 Corvette with the taillights and nerf bars that were supposed to go on the AlKart which didn't get built either. (That was a double kit then, came with a complete '29 Ford Roadster, so I did build that one.)
I'm not knocking the Mysterion or people who like it best. I just like to know what aspects of designs make people like one design better than another. I see the front end of the BeatnikBandit borrowed from the Corvette XP-700 show car and the side scoops off the '58-'62 Corvette turned backwards on the side of the Mysterion. all of which work for me on both cars, and I have no problem with the borrowing of the designs because that is what we do when we customize...borrow parts and assemble them into a new rolling sculpture.
Barnett , Thanks, Told me the kind of stuff I was looking for!
But then he's an artist, so he understands where I was coming from.

 

pink bazooka ! sad but true it was a idea that was never finished. it looked like it was solar powered but a battery and equipment to modulate the juice was never put in. it had a elec. motor with a gear turning with same chain that went to the honda engine. if it was ever finished you would put trans in neutral and if elec engine got power i quess it would turn the chain. i drove it around with the honda engine only. when checking out every crevice you could see it never had any elec, [solar panel had wires going nowhere],components or battery ever mounted in it. it only had a honda bat. for lights ect. it did not work too good for tight turns or any where near that cause it did not have a differencial it was a big gear and disk brake connected to a bitchin torshion bar suspended ind. swing tube axles.