im about to pick up a 88 thunderbird complete car with a 302 H.O / AOD ****** for $450. I've been doing some research online and talking to a few guys on here about the EFI to carb. This is what i know : New intake Carb dizzy - with br*** gear Front sump oil pan This is what im unsure of : Water pump Serpentine belt New timing cover and harmonic balancer Anything else ? this is a post from a mustang board regarding this : http://www.fordforums.com/showthread.php?t=4736 the second post has alot of info and makes me think i should just buy a older 302, like the 302 in the 1968 Cougar in S.D. any suggestions ? ideas ? do's or don'ts ? is this gonna cost too much ? i figure i could find alot the parts at the yard Im really up in the air about this, the cool thing about the thunderbird is that i will get the whole car, i have also run compression tests on it and the cylinders are all pushing 155 or so. Thanks L
as far as the water pump and belts go you can run a serpentine belt system on the 302 and it wont make a diff but it wont look period if thats what your going for as far as parts go i think you have the list covered... wat r you doin w/ the fuel injection when it comes off??
Just replace the timing cover with one that has the fuel pump mount, and bolt the fuel pump eccentric to the timing gear. Remark the timing marks on the balancer. They are usually off. Then its just a carbed intake, carb, non-efi distributor - don't need a br*** gear for a stock cam, and an oil pan that will fit whatever car you are going to drop it into. If you keep the serpentine belt, reuse all the accessories but the smog pump and get a shorter belt. If you are going to a V-belt, get all new accessories and mounts, and a new waterpump - the serpentine pump spins in the opposite direction.
Don't use a br***/bronze gear in a street driven car it will wear out quickly. When you buy the distributer get one for an 85 Mustang GT and if they ask you which gear, you want the one w/steel gear not the cast iron gear.
As mentioned, steel gear (not cast iron & not bronze) for use w/roller cam. You've got it covered with your first list otherwise. The items in your second list are not necessary, but be aware that your EFI front cover will not have provisions for a mechanical fuel pump. That's fine, just run an electric pump. I've swapped these babys back & forth several times - nothing to it. One thing to watch for if you change the oil pan is the dipstick - most EFI models have the dipstick in the pan. If you go front-sump pan, there probably wont' be any dipstick provisions - the older cars had it on the front timing cover. Something to sort out with whatever works best for you. If you change the balancer to put V-pulleys on, be sure to check the imbalance. Older engines had 28oz imbalance & later EFI engines had 50oz imbalance, so you need to make sure the balancer & flywheel/flexplate match. You can switch back & forth, but they need to be matched. All other issues with V-pulleys have been touched on (water pump, etc.) EDIT - Text in red is probably incorrect. Read 15 Oct post edit.
Flat earnie has it correct - run an electric pump and forget about swapping the timing cover (and accessory mounts since they're further out to make room for the fuel pump drive eccentric) I'd run the serpentine belt setup unless you're going for the looks of an old time V-belt setup
I did the same.run a steel gear, and kept the serpintine belt.....I just change the alt pulley to serp kind.
another thing, when changing from the efi dizzy to a carbed one, make sure you use the correct oil pump drive shaft. there is a difference, forgot which one is longer. the wrong one might work for a while, but because of limited contact area, it might round off the shaft and quit turning your oil pump.
thats what i like to hear... actually wat i would have liked to hear is giving it to you but to each his own
If the Bird has discs on the rear, I'd be interested if you want to part with them. I'd take the whole rear but I didn't look to see where you are and it would have to ship truck so that's out. Use the electric fuel pump and the serpentine belt, just get rid of the smog pump. The rest as they say is elementary Watson!
thanks for the help guys, so this is what im gonna do : Intake Carb [ obviously ] Electric fuel pump Front sump oil pan dizzy - with the same kinda gear that is in there, i figure that is the easiest way. Im gonna run the Serpentine belt - one thing im not sure about it the power steering pump, i know there are some 75ish 302's that have the same power steering set up, with the control valve and ram, do i just need to change the pulley ? im pretty sure thats all i have to do. Orange Crate - if it has discs in the rear i'll let you know. anything else guys ? L
You can re-use the gear that comes out - simply drive out the roll pin & pull the gear off the shaft. That way you know it matches the cam...
Can be hard to tell w/o them side-by-side - together, it's obvious. The '81-up 302/5.0 are 50oz, so if you can confirm year, that's best if original application... Here's two ****py pics - first, the 28oz: Next, the 50oz: Sorry about size/quality, but only ones I could find online (at Ford, no less) - notice the outer edge & how the 50oz goes more than 180-degrees around while the 28oz only goes a little over 90-degrees around for the weight. EDIT - I was mistaken about swapping both balancer & flywheel/flexplate regardless of engine. I don't think you can. I have done it in the past, but the engine we did it on was a mish-mash of parts, so the stuff we pulled off may not have been original. While researching the balancer pictures for you, I downloaded the latest Ford Racing catalog & read various engine specs/rotating ***embly specs/etc - it implies you can't swap them. I haven't had a late SBF crank lying next to an early SBF crank to compare, so I don't want to tell you can do this if it may damage your engine. I do know the late cranks have a 1-piece rear main seal & I thought that was the only difference, but it appears not. When I thought about it a bit more, it made sense that they would not swap out...
Awesome thanks... Balancer isnt a big whoop, but can I separate the serpantine pulley from it and replace it with a V-groove? I may just keep the serpantine system, Half of the people who would even notice are the ones I want to rile up anyway. Thanks, J
The correct answer is, "it depends"! Short version is "yes" - long version is, you'll have to check alignment of pulleys. There are so many combinations of pulleys, balancers, accessories, etc. that it's impossible to give you a straight answer. I did it the other way around - put serpentine on a '69 351W I dropped in a '83 Mustang years ago. The bolt pattern of the serpentine pulley did not match the balancer, so I used the old pulley as a drill guide. Been on there since '85 with no problems. There are two bolt patterns - 3-bolt & 4-bolt. In a perfect world, you'd find the complete V-belt setup w/all accessories & balancer to match your engine in a junkyard & install known matching components. In the real world, however, you may have to play with it a bit... Your mileage may vary.
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