Projects Eight Thousand Dollars for a paint job?

There are reasons estimates are only estimates. You see a car and things look ok, or so it seems, then you strip it and this is what you find.



So a little work.



A little time, and you get this...



All for a driver quality paint job.



Yeah it takes time, and time is money.

A car that has a 1/4 like that usually has a whole bunch of other issues as well, hidden pretty well before we got to it. I pretty much refuse to do paint without the car stripped to bare metal, and I mean completely. Not worth the time and PITA.

 

Nothing little about that job. It ain't just spraying paint when you cross into panel replacement territory.

 

The bad thing is more often than not there is crap like this that lies underneath.
If there is even one little thing you find, be sure there is not anymore. If the paint bubbles it's always the painters fault. The question is always "who did the paint?" not "who did the body work?"



More rot under paint.

 

100 hours a panel does seem excessive unless it's a salt belt car that no one makes panels for and you have to scratchbuild the car from the beltline down. Let's say you work 12 hours a day 5 days a week, that's almost two weeks per panel... average 4-door sedan 11 or so panels, 24 weeks labor, or six months. That Ford in the example photos that needed the lower quarter, I can't imagine took 100 hours a panel even on that quarter. Unless you're blasting the paint off by throwing handfuls of sand at it over and over again.

Sure not what I was taught in school, although what they taught me was more or less basic paint and collision stuff.

Although a quote for 100 hours a panel is going to seperate the men from the boys as far as the checkbook goes, that's for sure, I guess I can see not wanting to dick around with guys who want twice the paintjob for half the money and don't even have that much set aside for it.


If your goal is like, to win the Ridler award or something, that's different, by all means make the thing like a mirror without so much as a dust fleck of filler and you'll probably spend that amount of time on it.

 

Not excessive for high end stuff really. I know of a few that do high end restorations and they'll easily spend a week or a week and a half on a panel. 100 hours is a pretty safe way to go on an estimate. And if they baulk at it then they aren't serious.

 

My pretty accurate estimate on time for a strip down full body restoration
is 1000 hours, I haven't been too far off on that.
I have 40 hours into striping off undercoat on the job i'm doing now.

 

ZMAN read my quote right. It's an estimate. We don't do any scuff and shoot jobs. Never works out right. We really like to deliver a product that we can stand behind.

Did I mention that we have at least a one year waiting list? That's alot of people who could go other places for the 8K jobs but instead, they would rather get in line a wait a year to get into our shop. The kicker is that the estimate is 7-8 times higher but yet they wait.

Why? I ask myself that question all the time. The only answer I have is that some people have too much money. Ha Ha.

When we deliver a product, the bottom of the rockers look as good as the hood. Jambs are perfect. It's just the way we like to things.

When you get into late 30's/pre war stuff, you'd be amazed at how many individual parts there are that need to be reconditioned. Not like a mustang.

On ZMAN's 1/4 panel, that is what we expect on certain models. That's why the 100 hours per panel estimate. We don't know what we are going to find. That's why we do it this way.

I respect the guy's who can turn out 5-8K paint jobs while making money and keeping customers happy but more often than not, a few years down the road, we will be one of the shops that are re-doing everything the right way.

 

Man, you've got that right.

 

I learned after being the monkey on my Roadrunner paint job what exactly it takes to do the job. My painter has a work ethicand skill that is second to none. From the day we took the first piece of trim off until it rolled back in my garage was 2 months and about 6 K later. That was including a Lincoln 135 with gas, 2K in paint and materials and the rest in labor 120 man hours for the pro and the same for me the monkey, gofer, grinder, stripper. He gave me a screaming deal on the labor plus I kicked him down a bonus. When I hear people say "its an easy fix" or it just needs"a little body work and paint" I kind of laugh knowing what it really takes . My guy color sanded and buffed it the next day and 6 years later it still looks cherry even after the 7800 mile road trip I drove it on in 2007. He's going to be doing my Olds as soon as I'm ready.

 

And there is the proof. An actual owner involved in the process. Knows what it takes to do it right. He's 280 hours of labor plus paint into the car and 6 years later, he's still happy.

That's what it's all about. Doing it right so that it looks good for a long time. That's what builds repeat business.

 

X-2, to a point....

My son just finished a 50's custom candy painted 41 Ford Coupe. This included the dash, garnish moldings, steering column, and finishing the engine bay

The three stage candy materials totaled 1683.00.

Now, going in a backwards sequence from the finished product to bare metal I will pull the invoices and list the prices for just the materials:

Buffing pads, buffing compounds, polishing compounds, all totaled 338.50.

600,800,1200,and 2000 grit paper to finish block sand 286.00

1 roll of Sharkskin plastic @ 48.00 per roll

Finish primer 165.00

600, 800 grit sandpaper to block sand 165.00

Heavy fill primer 215.00 and 5 gallons of thinner 55.00.

Tape, paper, 58.50

Acid etch primer 297.98

36, 60, 80 and 120 grit paper after metal finish and filler 310.00

Filler and harder 234.87

Welding wire and argon 30.00

All of the above just tallied to about 3670.00.
____________________________________________________________________________
This does not include the electricity for the 135 plus hours the 220 volt compressor ran, or the electricity used in the paint booth and 65 hours to power the buffer, lights etc.

BTW the labor alone for this job from bare metal until it rolled out the door was 288 hours.

 

The problem with long threads is everything gets hashed and hashed over and over, time and time again. Most people do not read every post. There has been a lot of facts written about in this thread in regards to materials. I have painted cars with less than $400 in materials and they look great. One in particular has never been in a garage and I painted it 7 years ago. I have also quoted a customer $1028 for just a gallon of base. So it's all over the board and I'm not convinced it's the most important factor either.

 

OK, i will give you a little on that one. Do you use top of the line materials? How much of the materials do you have left when the job is done? 25-35%?.

I have severall buddies that paint and charge X amount for the materials, they always have left overs. Paint a few cars and you will have enough to do one of yours and a friends car.

 

my gf has over 4k in apair of doors a trunklid a hood 2 quarter extensions and both mirriors and a front valance for her o/t car the rolling shell is being done right now and thats gonna be atleast another 4k and the front fenders still won t be done

8k is cheap

 

In the case of this candy job we used Martin Senior silver base and candy color with PPG clear.
We get the best price on all consumables such as paper, tape, compounds purchasing in bulk. To be fair, we do not mark up the materials, we show the customer the actual invoices for the materials purchased and prorate the usage.
For example if a bottle of #33 compound is 44.00 and we used 3/4 of the bottle on your job we charge you 33.00.
If we use 150 grit DA paper on your car, we purchase it by the box. A box of 50 sheets is right at 48.00 so we charge the customer 1.00 per sheet. If we use 20 sheets then the reamaining is used on the next customers car and billed accordingly



As far as extra paint is concerned, we try and only purchase what is needed. If it is a special mix, we offer two options. You take the overage with you and are responsible for what happens to it, or you can leave it with us and we do our best to preserve the shelf life in case it is needed for touch up.
As for the straight single stage and base clear colors, since we do buy in bulk we prorate that the best way we know how based on actual usage.

We are car guys and understand the value of good communication when working on your project.

For bodywork and paint on older cars, our shop is one of the few shops in Indy that stays full. We attribute this to the above practices and charging a fair shop rate. We log all hours and send you pictures of the weekly progress.

At our shop, you can pay as you go as long as we are working on your project weekly.
So far, we have never required an up front deposit before starting. By doing this we do not have to worry about spending your lump sum down payment in advance and let your project set because there is no money in working on it.

 

^^^thanks for the reply/claraficaion.

 

hi steve, well i understand the hours it takes to do a exlnt paint job as i saw you do my 32 chev in 2002 and i know your hours where huge .[appox 80-100] . and the cost of materials have risen greatly over the last 4-5 years . but the cheque book car guy that has emerged in the last few years has no respect for talented guys like yourself WANT THE BEST but DONT WANT TO PAID .unfortunely these same people have never picked up a spray gun, let alone got there hands dirty from under the bonnet I greatly respect you and your work as you love what you do best. It would be a shame to see someone with your talent to simple pack it in because some CARGUYS stick you in the back. I highly regard you as one of N Z top car painters and your artwork/murals are fantastic to say the least . all the best Les H

 

This has been a good thread. And, yes it can be debated up and down all day long, but at the end of the day the fact is that the job can cost whatever you want, as long as you are willing to live with the quality output. We have refinished a few quickie cars for $500 with one stage fleet paints and have gone the other extreme as well. They both look decent from 100 feet and maybe even 50 feet, but there is an extreme difference up close.

Bottom line, do what satisfies your wallet and your expectations, but understand that there is definitely justification in the expense for a job done 100% right.

Enjoying everyone's viewpoint here!