I am not looking to debate the age old mechanical fan verses the electric fan And I am known for not being a fan (excuse the pun) of electric fans but I was wondering were their any American made automobiles with electric fans prier to 1964? HRP
Here ya go a pre '64with electric fan. not factory though I don't think. I am thinking maybe Corvette or Stude Avanti would be your best bet.
I doubt it, as the charging systems weren't up to that big a load in those days. These typically draw at least 20 amps (not including the inrush current), and that would have been a substantial percentage of capacity back then. There may have been some 'specialty' applications, but few if any as OEM.
I hate to agree with the bearer but I'm thinking the amp load would sling the solder out of the generator.
I am not aware of any but since so many hamb guys are using them I question why they are so popular since the cars cooled fine when they were manufactured. HRP
We're having to use a couple because the gap between the radiator and the pump pulley is too small to fit a mechanical fan. Don't know if thats the only reason people use them, but it's definitely one of them.
Electric fans are often used when a mechanical fan would sit too low on the radiator to be efficient , also when squeezing a modern V8 into a tight spot would put the Mechanical fan too close to the Radiator. on my black 33 the firewall is uncut = real tight squeeze, electric puts the fan up top of the radiator where it doe's the most good, same reason on my 29
Open hood, spinning mechanical fan= kids with no fingers. Aside from that, ease of installation without worrying of routing radiator hoses, helps cool when engine shuts off for us desert cars. Lots of reasons. Most guys on here aren't running generators, points, better throw out your seat belts, and the list goes on and on.
They get used because it's easier. It's easier than designing around a mechanical fan. It's easier to get stuff in the wrong place and get away with it. It's easier to get stuff in the right place because you don't have to design a mechanical It easier to mount an electric fan than cut a firewall Eliminate electrical fans and you'll separate the men from the boys real quick
They also get used because they're better.... A mechanical engine-driven fan will consume up to 40 hp at higher rpm (various dyno tests), switching to a thermostatic hub or a flex fan will cut that roughly in half... but you're still talking 20 hp. Even at slow speeds, you're still using 5-7 hp to spin one. But two large 30 amp electric fans (yeah, you'll need a honkin' big alternator to run 'em) will use less than 1 hp (60a x 12v = 720 watts, 1 hp = 750 watts), and only when they're on. That mechanical fan is using power any time the engine is running. That's why new cars use electrics, they use less energy... but until high output alternators became available, they just weren't practical. I remember when flex fans came out; the claims of saving up to 20 hp over a conventional fan (which were actually true). Unfortunately, they're noisy as hell and still cost you more than 1 hp....
Agreed (except for that irritating noise). But does that make it OK on a "traditional" build. If so, then there are lots of parts that get trashed talked on here that are "better" than their 40's, 50's, early 60's counterparts that should be acceptable.
IMHO,that's debatable but you are entitled to your opinion Steve. The flex fans in my opinion are dangerous and have been known to fly apart and injury people. I'm a firm believer in using the biggest steel bladed mechanical fan I can stuff between the radiator and water pump and with the zips risers I am able to position the fan in the center of the radiator. As far as horse power I haven't noticed any great loss of speed,I suppose it just comes down to individual likes & dislikes. HRP
Don't get me wrong, I don't like flex fans either and that's one of the reasons. But regular metal blade fans have been known to come apart too and they're even worse for damage when they explode (I saw one come right through a hood and embed in the ceiling...). And in terms of controlling power loss and cooling, a properly-sized-and-installed electric fan or fans will beat either type hands-down. You just can't make them look traditional... If electric fans had been available 'back in the day', rodders would have been all over them. Where else will you get 20+ hp so easily after you've done 'the usual' motor upgrades?
Danny, they cooled fine when they were manufactured ? Henry fought over heating flatheads for quite a while. I remember carrying bags of water in Mom and Dad's 56 Ford[ya, a Y block] cause it would overheat on long highway road trips. I admit, Dad did beat on it a bit ! No overflow tanks to recapture coolant. Maybe not enough air flow. But, shut it off and it boiled. Electric fans and overflow tanks are a big improvement to the romance of how it used to be. Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember how it used to be. Just my two cents.
Vapor lock is a problem now with the gas being forumlated for fuel injected cars....I don't remember it being such a problem way back when. But I guess it was, on some cars. Electric fans probably are better in some cases, but the HAMB isn't about better, it's about traditional.
DeltaPAG Very nicely designed fans. A little more expensive, DO NOT require huge amounts of power to run, small brushless motors...all modern designed stuff. Look'em up. Mike
Back to the original question....the first sideways engine front drive car built in the US was the 1978 Omni/Horizon...then the 1980 X body GMs...I bet those were the first US built cars to use electric fans. I'd like to be proven wrong. Pictures help.
Must be why I see all the cars with points, generators, and the like. Hamb is a great site for information, or finding out how thick your skin is, but when it comes to true traditional it is the most hypocritical group to ever grace the internet. Traditional is traditional. It's not how one defines it. History is what it is. People can justify a zips fan riser for the problem it solves, but that's the same as an electric fan. Led lights and halogens, same thing. Pertronix, you betcha. Voltmeter, over an ammeter, easy choice, but ALL of those (and COUNTLESS others) are used for the same reasons, and justifying them does NOT make them traditional, just hypocritical.
Not ever one time have a seen a mechanical fan fail because of a bad sender, switch, relay, fuse, wire or bad ground- just saying
Danny I think what makes them popular is that they are easy. I can remember doing all kinds of oddball stuff with mechanical fans and shrouds before I discovered electric fans. if or when you see one on one of my vehicles its because it was an easy solution and I got lazy. Around '64 or '65 (I don't recall which) GM and Ford both had externally regulated alternators. Ford as I recall had a very high output one. So an electric fan would not have been entirely out of the question. I did repair a formerly pristine deuce radiator out of a roadster here in town one time because the flatty tossed a fan blade.
Most of these cool cars get run in parades. mechanical fans have been failing to be adequate in summer heat and less than 5mph since the parade car was invented. Electric fans are the cure for that kind of abuse.
Chrysler started using alternators around 61, Chevy around 63, Ford around 65. But there was no real need for electric fans, until they started putting engines in sideways, and started worrying about getting the last fraction of a mile per gallon, etc in the 80s.
Has nothing to do with fans but Lucas Flame throwers were halogen and voltmeters have been around longer than I have. Just to throw sand in the cogs. As for fans I am pretty sure that non of the main stream American manufacturers used them pre '64. There may have been an oddball small manufacturer that used them, but even then they would not have resembled anything that we use today, and it would have been a company that built things not intended for everyday daily use. No if you will allow me, who knows when the first electric was used on an off the assembly line American car.
As were independent suspensions, fiberglass, fuel injection, disc brakes, and many other things not considered traditional because they weren't commonly used in this "lifestyle". As long as you don't throw sand in my condoms, it's all good
i can't think of any until the 70's. i thought the only reason they are used in an old car was so blind people could tell the street rods from the hot rods.........
The sand goes on the outside, its poor man's ribs. Lucas lights were actually outlawed for a long time, at least everyplace I ever lived. They got used but were like straight pipes, you used 'em and hoped for the best. In my library of the mind I have two categories. Common and uncommon traditional. Common is what we normally saw and often varied from one neighborhood to the next and uncommon was what someone was doing that was an oddball. *I often use radio tires (what I called them when I was little), Pirellis' and Dunlop's were available as far back as I recall and some bay area hot rodders used them, but they would not be considered common. Common would be 'Stones or Atlas. *example only not totally applicable to the thread.
I honestly could care less what others drive, or how they build THEIR cars, as long as they are relatively safe. I just find it funny how many guys on here care so worried about what parts are on other guys cars when they are as far from TRADITIONAL as a Prius. I think far too many don't know the meaning of hypocritical is. Past that, as long as you are wrenching, we are good.
If electric fans had been available 'back in the day', rodders would have been all over them. Where else will you get 20+ hp so easily after you've done 'the usual' motor upgrades?[/QUOTE] If LS motors had been available "back in the day" would rodders have been all over them too??
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