Technical Engine builders: Why is my new 322 breaking rockers?

Reminds me of my former boss, thought there was only one way to do things, his way. Any other way had to be wrong.

 

Fox, you gonna mail him a buick solid lifter? instead of bitching about work-arounds designed to accommodate his limited resources, how about you offer some useful suggestions as to what he can do with what he has on hand? No? Didn't think so...
I'm done, shoulda known better in the first place...

 

When putting a engine together you have got to measure ALL the parts first , to make sure they are going to work if not you are going to hear a big bang

He needs to check out the numbers to see what he has and needs, pretty simple instead of keeping on breaking parts

Yaa i'am done too I guess he does not read our ideas, toot a loo

 

Then here's a marriage of posting's here. Remove the inner spring and put it back on the valve alone all by it's itty bitty self and use solid lifter as Rich has mentioned and rotate the engine by hand and watch and see. Think of it as a "Strip Show". We guy's like striper's right ?

 

George; Come on. You "Liked" my post about using an old lifter or making a temporary testing lifter to accomplish this. Of course that was on Sunday. This deal has been beat on for so long you may have forgotten. I think I read here somewhere that a SBC lifter is the same dia. Yes, if he pays postage I will mail him a checking lifter

 

In my shop when I had to measure actual cam lift with NO solid lifters, I'd use a push rod with a notched end (made with a die grinder)
The notch fit over the rim of the hydraulic lifter body, so I wasn't relying on a thimble full of oil as a base.
Otherwise, fit a thick flat washer with a welded 'button' underneath that seats firmly atop the lifter.
Solid base...

 

Who needs a different lifter ? This is bitchy time right ? Ok, OP doesn't have a solid lifter. Here's what OP can do so he doesn't have to send a self addressed envelope with postage to Rich. Open up one of those Hydraulic lifter's and remove the spring and shim it internally so the internal piston sit's up where it's suppose to, against the bottom of the retainer clip. This is only my "Theory" of what work's when you don't have the exact part. What's that word ? Oh yes, improvise.

 

In case it get's lost, another good idea above as well.

 

Damn Johnny. I had a piece of bar stock all picked out and everything. Now he wont want a dummy lifter. Bummer

 

OP, I have sent you a pm.
the real irony is, all these heroes are so wrapped up in arguing over the methodology of obtaining the spring coil clearance number, they have totally overlooked the fact that the OP has already obtained a clearance number between the coils yesterday, and has already posted it.

Don't let me interrupt the standard HAMB pissing match, carry on...

 

Lol, you can still make the spacer to go into the lifter for OP. Groucho once accused me of steeling work from him. He just didn't see thing's as I did also.

 

Don't know a thing about nailheads but could the larger valves be larger then the piston valve reliefs

 

Your signature is priceless during times like these. Tell me that bench talk in the garage doesn't get crazier than this.

 

Sure or even touching the cylinder wall. Lots of things could be happening. Needs looking at.

 

One word and the house will get it. "Clay"

 

If the op just gets a check spring he could use HIS lifter,cycle the engine and check for collisions between the retainer,guide and seal,then at max lift approx btdc 15,10,5,tdc 5&10 a tdc. To the piston by applying pressure to overcome the spring.
Done,everything you need to see.
Do it on one of the exhaust and intakes. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is on the inners on a nailhead,they are sunk approx .100 lower than the outers, so compressing both inner and outers in a vise will not duplicate the spring environment in the head.
Sbc lifters do work,I am using them with edm holes on a custom ft solid cam.
The gotha rockers are all over the map when I checked them for ratios,so carfull if you choose to use them,the interfeance adjuster screws are prone to come loose as well. Not to mention there is no oil to the pushrod tips so they tend to burn up the pushrods over time.
Like I said earlier,call gary at rocker arm specialties. He hard chromes them and bushes them for the guy in simivally ca.( I don't want to mention any names).
My stoker nail runs hard and fast,I would be happy to share anything anyone may need to know. 2 clutches,1olds rear and a pile of wheel stands,just wait until I convert 6 97s to e-85.

 

If the rockers broke because of coil bind, etc, I feel life was not good for the lifters and cam shaft that had to push that hard.
I'd check the condition of all the lifter faces and cam lobes, not just the ones that broke rockers.

 

Yo! Somebody lookin' for me? Though to be honest, I don't think there's anything useful I could add to the conversation...

 

I really appreciate the good advice and help.

I get only a precious few hours in the shop, and really only on weekends, so you're going to need some patience to see this through.











Share from H.A.M.B.


Sent from my iPhoneSo some of this

 

Lol ... it's good to have friends. Looks like you have a ton of 'em. I'd drink beer with the whole lot.

 

For illustration

This picture shows 53-56 322 from left to right.

Sealed power inner with 9 turns
Falcon inner with 10 turns
Stock Buick inner (quite abut shorter)
Stock Buick outer ( again shorter )
Falcon outer

Not pictured is the Sealed power outer, it is similar to the Falcon but had one less turn.

 

No worries. This is how we intertain ourselves until your next update. Beside's, you need to see other's being unhappy as well so you can laugh also.

 

Here are the specs of the sealed power / federal mogul springs. This is what made me nervous as their advertised bind height is higher than a bench test and the Falcons are higher yet.

Note the OD of Buick springs is not that common like a SBC. If anybody has some sources to check post them up.

Like I said in a earlier post Russ Martin is sending some springs that should get me on track. I trust his experience. As I noted before the inner spring bind height will go from 1.14 to .864.

 

That's a good suggestion.

 

I'm really concerned about your springs in your very first pic's. It's clear that the outer springs last wind and where it thins at a taper to creat the flat is bad new's. Some of the retainer's are clearly not square/parallel to the valve spring seat. This can cause keeper failer to happen not to mention unwanted side load on the valve stems. Yes I know gang, the springs are the top thing to blame but I don't think I read this mentioned before. Just further reason to dump those springs.

 

Here's something interesting. Here's a picture of Karl's 322 that he was able to pull the valve cover on.
Same year 56 322
Same lower end rebuild kit from falcon
Same 364 intake valves
Same 1.5 installed spring height
Same 1.6 rocker assemblies
Schneider 270 cam .472 intake lift, and .480 exhaust assuming 1.6 rockers. Max lift matches my Crane.

Note the valve springs. And notice the outers are progressive.


The problem is Karl started adding up receipts for his build and stopped short and destroyed them all when he saw the total adding up.

Unfortunately it must have erased his memory too. He cannot recall if they came from Russ Martin, Egge, or Schneider.

Maybe we can narrow it down this week when the springs show up from Russ Martin

 

I have extra rocker shaft assembly springs and it looks like it might work to cut one for a check spring. If not I am going to check the hardware store spring selection to see what I can find.

You are correct regarding the the inner spring, BUICK strays from other motors.
The inner spring sets on a step on the retainer that measures about .125-.130 but BUICK inners also set into a relief pocket in the head that measures .164-.167 deep (at least on a junk head I have). Assuming the 1.53 outer spring height the inner spring is actually 1.567/1.569 take that minus the .480 MAX lift = 1.088 Sealed power specs show bind at 1.14 and Falcons are worse.
The inner springs I have coming are bind at .864 = I should be clear. on the inners
More reason to check the inner and outers.

 

Judd,
do you recall if the inner or outer springs were binding?

 

This is just plain Funny! What a great hobby we have!

 

Johnny,
I do have my original lifters that came out of the engine. Seems like a reasonably simple approach.