Technical Engine, Early Olds Rocket tech summary.

I hear a lot of pessary yhat the sbc is superior to the olds in every way. Is that true? I know they say it's better than the Ford y-block in every way. But the fact is the y-block has built in features conducive to performance that the sbc doesn't have. I'm guessing olds are the same. I just don't know what they are.
What are some of the features of the olds that make it better than the sbc?

 

When looking for a mill for the "El Caballo" back in 1989, I had the option of using a highly modified 303, as Ak Miller did, or using a '58 371 to end up with the same displacement. I opted for the latter. Larry Spengler of Benicia, Ca found the complete '58 olds which donated the engine, and then went on to build it. Basically, it was stock. The original cam was sent to Ak, and he, along with Ed Iskenderian, used the Isky shop, late at night, to put a regrind on that puppy that worked extremely well. It would wind into the next county!! I would assume that the engine balance was responsible for alot of how it ran. I did not know at that time who Al Blazic was, but I sure do now. I believe that my engine may have been the last Olds that he did. Whatever magic he used, worked !! I used a couple different carb setups, including Strombergs, and big Holley 2-bbls.
That engine was very strong, and for street and some racing venues, it was perfect. Plenty strong, smooth, and yet wicked sounding.
Moral of the story, I really don't think you need to get carried away with exotic parts to make a really bitch'n Olds mill.......

 

@cabong Do you have any other pictures of that carb setup? Are the throttle blades reversed in two of the carbs or did the linkage just pull them opposite directions? Also, do you have any idea the specs on the cam you say Isky ground? Was it a solid lifter one or did they stay hydraulic?

 

Hi Jeb !! The carb linkage pulled in opposite directions, and actually worked quite well 'till the person responsible for taking the critter across the border during the Carrera in 1991 drove around town and never turned on the electric fan. fuel vapors from the rear most carb caught fire and ruined the carb. We jury rigged the setup to work, but it was a mess. It also burnt the distributor. Ak Miller made a Chevy unit work. The carbs were 48's, as they are a tad larger than the 97's... The lifters were hydraulic, and Ak and Ed never revealed what they did to that cam, but man did it work well....

 

It looks like you had to mill a flat on the side of the carburetors that face each other?

 

That's correct, it was a very tight fit. This setup was exactly like the original, cept'n for the 97/48 switch. Then, after running the Carrera Panamericana with Ak Miller and Ray Brock, I made adaptors and ran 2 Holley 500's. They worked great.... That's what I used for the next 10 years that I was vintage road racing the bugger. When we moved to Idaho, I donated it to the NHRA Museum in Pomona. Now when I go to the LARS and the GRNS, I can go visit....
Needless to say, I love "Specials"..... One day back in the 90's, a friend in Livermore, CA called to see if I wanted to forego the Monterey Historics to go to Sears Point for some drag races, then hang and BS with the boys. I thought about it and simply said, thin about this.... I drift through turn 11 at Laguna Seca, slamming 2nd gear as soon as I'm kinda straight. I run up to 6 grand and nail 3rd. Hard on the loud pedal for about 3 seconds or panic, whichever comes first, then ram it back up into 2nd and pop the clutch, approaching turn 2. Turn 1 is flat out. The rear tires complain loudly as the smoke whisps off from nearly locking up. Other racers move away. Tweak the wheel to get into a drift just before the apex, then try to get straight again. Hit it hard to get as much speed before turn 3 creates panic all over again. I get to do this adrenalin rush 11 times every lap, in traffic. Now why in the hell would I want to go drag racing?? I miss him as a friend !!

 

Damn haven’t pulled this up in awhile. Still collecting olds parts though.

 

My .02 cents
https://www.noxiouscustoms.com/ built my exhaust manifolds

 

I Love this thread, What is the reason for shimming and by what means?
Oil filter adapter:
http://webpages.charter.net/dhomstad/
Or grab one off a 394 – bolts right on (a 303 at least) – possibly all?
Get three bolt version, shim gasket, clean, paint alum paint both sides, bolt before dry.

 

I know this is old thread but, it's the best I've found, for what I'm looking for.

I'm trying to determine the deck heights of the 49 - 64 Olds engines. I'm guessing there are 3 deck heights. I'm pretty sure the '59 - '64 371/394 DH is 10.625, with 7.00 rods and a 3.688 stroke, with 1.766 CH pistons, has a 10.625 DH (1.844+7.00+ 1.766 = 10.61). It's the 57 - 58, 371 and the 49 - 56, 303/324, that I'm trying to confirm.

My Badger and TRW piston catalogs list CH's of 1.875, '49-'53. 1.875-1.890 for '54-'56 engines but, the 371 has a 1.890 CH and has a longer stroke of 3.688 vs the 303/324 of 3.438. The 303/324 rods are 6.625 but, I can't find a rod length for the 371. If it also uses the 6.625 rod, then the deck has to be higher by 1/8" or the rod has be shorter by the same amount (6.50).

Based on the rod, piston and stroke, the 303/324 should have a DH of ~10.25 (1.719+6.625+1.875/1.89 = 10.219/10.234) but, I've seen it claimed that the DH is 10.5 for the 303/324. If it was 10.5 DH, with the 1.890 piston, it would give 27.25cc, with .141 deck clearance, more with the 1.875 piston. Since the '59 and later engines have .015 DC, I think .016/.031 DC would be reasonable for 303/324. Can anyone confirm the DH of the 303/324?

That brings me to the 57/58, 371 engine. Again the two catalogs list the CH to be 1.890 for that engine so, with a 1/4" longer stroke, there has to be a difference some where. The block had a 1/8" bigger bore and larger mains. 2.75 vs 2.5, 1-4, 2.625 rear main ( '59 and later have 3.0 mains). The rods were 2.25, same as 303/324 ('59 and later are 2.50). So, it was a 2 year only block. Did they raise the DH 1/8" on it? I, personally doubt that they would have shortened the rod, with the longer stroke but, who knows.

Does anyone have any confirmed info on the DH of these early engines?

 

Tom Beatty fabricated 471 intake & trimmed 471 blower for 303/324

 

303/324 Nicson dual quad intake

 

nice,
I'm slowly gathering bits and pieces to put a 6-71 on a late 371

 

Paul, Can you give me the torque specs on flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts for my 371. I loaned my Chilton's to the machine shop and have not got it back yet. I want to install today or tomorrow. Thanks, pal! Hope all is well in Wash. Dale

 

Bump bump

 

I run both, and there are not many things about the Olds that are superior to the SBC. Sure it's nice to be able to pull the intake off without having to take the distributor out, but it's not a huge deal to do that with the SBC and I don't know if it counts as something "superior". The Olds came out 6 years ahead of the SBC, so it's only natural that the SBC is the superior engine. The engineers had a benchmark to work off of and to improve upon.

If I was to pick one, it would probably be that the rockers are shaft mounted on the Olds, which IMHO makes for a more stable valve train. However, the analysis doesn't end there. The SBC oils the top end up through the lifters through the pushrods, whereas the Olds oils the rockers through the shafts, fed by a passage from a cam journal, up through a rocker shaft stanchion, and though the hollow tube. The cam journal feed is "timed" meaning it only supplies oil every 1/4 turn. Olds Kettering engines are notorious for very little oil to the top end, especially when that oil passage gets clogged or obstructed with sludge. I would feel confident standing next to a running Olds with no valve covers in a white dress shirt, that's how little oil often gets up there, and it seems it is able to adequately oil itself with oil vapor rather than a constant ample supply of pressurized oil. Additionally, stock rockers on an Olds are not adjustable, which complicates cam swaps to more aggressive profiles. Old adjustable rockers are rare and difficult to come by, and new adjustable rockers are only available through Ross Racing. In all cases they're expensive. Ross Racing has also figured a way to utilize hollow pushrods and lifters on the furthest pushrods of the 1, 2, 7, and 8 cylinders to bring additional oil to the top end. On the other hand, the stock SBC has a good oiling system to the top end and has rockers that are adjustable, even if the stud/fulcrum mount isn't the perfect design for extreme pressures. Screw in studs, as opposed to press in, remediate this issue, and even the SBC has an aftermarket, shaft mounted rocker setup that's available. So I wouldn't necessarily call the Olds superior in this regard. Just different.

Olds is cool tho.