now out here thats a bit harder than it sounds. the usual that is still running around that way is trucks. many of which are priced way higher than if they were say...a crown vic. though i have been on the look out for old Fifth Avenue/Grand Furys for their LA V8s (buddy of mine had a cop motor in his). have u seen Uncommon Engineering's site? they have some hornet motors with blowers and such! i've been to the 21st century hudson site before, clifford even still makes a mainfold for it. i dont remember if it was wilcap or someone else, i saw they had an adapter for the GM transmissions that used a dodge starter, but in most cases, i think they need the flywheel and i dont recall whether the Pacemaker still has its original flywheel. and to that guy with the Vortec idea, might be doable, though its going to depend on if i can find one in our boneyards, might be possible....more likely the others can be found. but its on the board now.
Read your responses- Quad4rods and Mantapart both make adapters for the Quad, Ecotec, and Zetec. I also agree with Kreb, the GM 4.2 would be a neat and DIFFERENT engine to use.
I was once considering this route. Ford developed the engine for Mazda technically, and you take modify the valve covers, do a few other little things and it looks damn similar to an offy as well. which leads to an interesting discussion - with all this globalization and engine designs being passed around, if you are anal enough to only put a brand x engine in brand x car, where do you draw the line? And if you believe that a Japanese made US design isn't right, then what about GM crates outsourced to China (as an example)? In response to the original questions - ever think of a Stude straight six. Hop-up parts and not bad engines, and can get trannies with OD. And you can come by them cheap.
the hudson will cost a few bucks to do anything with. my essex can use a rebuild and i dont think it is the best financial move i could make with this car, id like more power. although i have thought how cool it would be to put one of my essex engines in a t bucket. i have 2. i found onlione an adpater for the ecotech to 700r4, that is really interesting but i think its almost impossible to run a carb, so you have to have the efi crap and wiring running all over the place, thats kind of a buzzkill for me. i want to have the option of running my hood and i dont really want to cut my firewall so a straight six is pretty much out of the running for me, although i think it would be awsome to put a 308 in it. the one engine i keep going back to is the rover v-8, sometimes you can find them for about 500 bucks, lots of parts are available and they are nice and light. when i bought the car i thought nailhead, but im not even sure if that will fit with the distributor in the back.
L series chrysler (Poly motor) They have a unique look due to the scalloped center bolt valve covers, and are as durable as a slant six, the cons are that it is heavy, and limited parts availability
Actually I might have one you could get for cheaper (Rover V8) if you help me remove it. Its a 3.5 out of an 89 Rangie, I want to put the 2.5 Diesel in it. I have the 3.9 in my 91 RR and they really are a pretty solid engine choice. PLus since its the old 60's Olds/Buick in disguise, plenty of parts out there and options.
Keep a ford in it! Although i'm going to recommend an FE.... They're a bit heavy, but they'll get out from under themselves pretty well!
I would suggest the little buick 300. It was a little stump puller, all alluminum (about 400 lbs total), accepts the standard BOP tranny pattern. Not much speed equipment available, but its not really needed for a 1800 lb car with 210 HP and 330 ftlb torque stock with a 2 barrell, the four barrell option carried 250HP with 352 torque. These little guys are available, I looked at a complete running 64 Buick with 72,000 miles, could have taken it home for $750.00.
Well, if you're trying to keep it looking like it was built in the 60s, then all the Pinto, Miata, Vega and other little 70s motors are out! I'd look at the Chevy II (Nova) four cylinder, the aluminum Olds or Buick V8s of the early 60s, a 221 or 260 Ford V8, or maybe the Pontiac Tempest four cylinder that was really half of a 389 V8! All of the above engines hail from the early 60s, all are light, and should be relatively affordable too.
Why has everybody turned on the SBC,if your on a budget you can't beat em' you can buy parts for about half the cost of anything else.If you gotta have something different I'd go SBF or American 6cyl.If you ever decide to sell it it won't bring much with some weirdo forign engine.
Don' t forget the Pontiac Overhead cam six from the late 60s, they're out there and can be found if you look. The Sprint versions came cammed up, with split exhaust manifolds, and a four barrel quadajet intake, stock. Even used the louvered pie pan chrome air cleaner from the GTO. They also use the standard BOPC bellhousing so Saginaw, Muncie, and BW T10 four speeds bolt right up. It looks terrific detailed out with it's diecast finned aluminum cam carrier and belt cover. The potential of up to 230 factory horsepower from 250 cubic inches isn't too shabby either!
SBC=overdone I dont think there are many people on here building cars for resale either, make it the way you want it.
I like to first congradulate you on the wisdom of your request, because any sane person trying to build a car which stands out from others and should be reliable, would want any motor except a SBC. Ease up folks, that was tongue in cheek. Although I really don't know why people use that engine when wanting to build something unique or different. To the subject at hand, a DOHC Fiat or Alpha is a cool choice, as well as an old Jag mill. Personally, I'm a Mopar guy. I've had a couple of T's with 440 Chryslers' in them, and always got foks asking "what IS that?" bacause all they ever have seen is...a SBC. Then when I'd take them for a ride the power would blow their mind.
Because the SBC crowd are a defensive lot. "You will tell me when the lambs are silent, won't you Clarice?" I won't touch the weirdo comment as its just silly.
I have to agree with those who have mentioned a ford in a ford. I am a firm believer of that. I have nothing against chevy's or any other make. I am building a 23 T myself and have a early 289 that is going in it. Yes it cost more to rebuild the engine than a chevy would have, but for me it is worth it. Now that said, I have a Y block that I may but with a 37 chev cab that I have. But that is not written in stone. I may build another T and use it in that. As many have said on here in other posts, it's your car do with it what you want. But for me a ford will only do in a T.
While the 403 Olds engine is a reliable unit capable of making good power with little effort, the crankshaft is not machined for a pilot bearing so if you wanted a manual transmission behind it, you'll have a little extra machine work to pay for. I'm not a Ford guy, but if I had a Ford, I'd put a Ford motor in it.
I got a 320 buick straight eight and dynaflow I'd let you have cheap. Wouldn't be super fast but it would look fuckin awesome
Hard to find, but an all-aluminum Buick V-8, polished up, is the ultimate T-bucket motor as far as I'm concerned. (Small, light as heck, plenty of parts available, and all that polishing is free for the cost of elbow grease.) Is the Rover version still aluminum? If so, grab that one!
I may be the only one.... but I vote for the Jeep 6. I've got a 258 (4.2) that I'm trying to get going for my A. These engines are plentiful, had many different tranny options (including the T5), parts are avail. just about anywhere, and plenty of torque. Stock 258 is rated @ 190 hp 190ft/lbs. I bought new gaskets, an offy 4 barrel intake and a 4.0 head for under $300 shipped. I figure to be pushing around 300hp and 300 ft/lbs after all is said and done and only be out around $500 worth of speed goodies. I figure that's enough to get my Model A to move outta it's own way, should be more than enough for a T.
I've got an old Jeep Cherokee with 225K miles on the 4.0 six that still runs well. I would consider it for a rod. They are a bit long so you would have to keep that in mind when designing your car.
that is an interesting thought on the globalization. we had a similar talk at work about how "import" cars are now build in america and american cars are built in mexico and canada. the studebaker would be an interesting motor, but that would probably be a bit hard to find since they havent made one since the 60s. http://www.quad4rods.com has a sidedraft carb manifold for the ecotec. i've thought of the Rover V8 a bunch as well, but i dont remember seeing too many rovers around here, tempted to help Spitfire1776 who said he needs help yanking one out i'm on the look out for 80s grand fury/fifth avenues, so its on the board how much help are we talking? cuz thats very tempting! i think the concept of keeping it "Ford in a Ford" is a bit ironic when im making the body from scratch, the rearend i have is a Dana out of a jeep, steering box is a corvair (need to reverse it, but it was 50 dollar score from ebay, cant beat that!), and a GM column out of a AMC. hell, if i found a complete 64 Buick like that, i'd just rod the buick! even if the motor is a bit out of place (timewise) from the look, it can still have the influence i think, but its going to lean a bit more on traditional anyways, so time period isnt as important. i think thats because that's all we see at the shows and in the magazines. i got mad at a recent Hot Rod magazine where they said DARE TO BE DIFFERENT with a Volvo, a Austin Healy roadster,a Rambler wagon, a Citroen 2CV...yet all had a SBC (a couple had LS1s). i figure i'll prolly be stuck with it regardless what i put in it and if nothing else, i'll just build another something and have the T at my dads for him to putter around with (or sell it to my lil bro). but its not even done yet.
the last time i heard ANYONE using that was the back of Tex Smith's How to Build Real Hot Rods and that was leroi himself. i wonder if he still has it...it is a interesting idea one of my old coworkers has a 40s Plymouth sitting in his garage with a straight 8 flatty from a 50s Mopar...tempting to talk him out of the straight 8 or hell the whole car! AMEN!!!! last fiat i saw (around here) had a SBC in it. i saw a 70s challenger in the local boneyard that i really should have checked out, it might have any number of motors in it theres a small derelict dealership by my house that has a 50s Ford Victoria station wagon (2 door!), i think it has a Y block, or that crazy pre289 motor (the 260? or that other V8 made before that even), they also have a late 70s-early 80s Trans Am that got me thinking of the 403. not sure what the motor in it is though.could be a 301. too new to be the 455. im split on the manual, so if it got down to it and a 403 plopped on my door or i found a good deal on one, its probably going to keep whatever is behind it or some sort of GM OD would go behind it theres even an adapter to make the GM transmission bolt up to the 258. my first car was a 74 AMC matador with the 258. 88hp, but 225 ft lbs of torque at 1800 rpm. stump puller if there ever was one. i really should have yanked the 258 and aluminum 904 out of it (then again i prolly would have kept its dana as well instead of getting the rebuilt one i got for insanely cheap). my father used to work at a AMC dealership and the only time he ever saw problems with the 232/258 was when middle school science teacher decided to try ether in the gas tank to try and make it easier to start in the cold (needless to say, it only fired one cylinder and the connecting rod found a nice exit)...the heads are badly designed dogleg ports so i'd probably eventually fit a 4.0 head or make a stroker out of a 4.0 if i went that route. though i saw a post somewhere on here where they were talking of 390s (ford vs caddy),one of the guys from my old band got a 390 AMC motor for nothing out of someone's backyard. too bad it adapts to nothing (except borg warner transmissions).
klemmy, just enough help to get it yanked out as fast as possible. The studes are actually surprisingly easier to find than one may think. For east coast guys theres a guy in Somerset, PA that has a plethora. And as almost everybody that gassers or street rods a stude takes and junks them out. the only people that I know of that keeps them are the truck guys (which is where I got mine, I had a 50 Stude truck with an extra set-up from the guy I bought off of). I think a good bit of it is that most people don't know the hop-up potential of the studebaker six. I'm thinking on using my six in a single seater. And I will admit I'm keeping the engine in my A a Ford 4 (with DOHC I'm designing), though the Miata idea keeps returning to me.
really now...i could kidnap err....persuade..there we go...my dad to come with me, he's got experience with stuff like that (though not with rovers). i've only pulled a motor out once, and that was out of my old Laser RS (ended up dropping the car on the floor to get it low enough to pull the motor out...damn modern cars! it wasnt like this back in my day! wait...im 24, damn it is my day...). but if i asked him he'd prolly go, so when u need to go lol. i wonder if it would fit in the trunk with the back seat down on my focus....
so what do you do for the ignition on the ecotech, isnt it coil pack? the "rover" is a general temr i guess, the 60-63 buick olds pontiac 215 and the rover cars and land rover trucks used the same basic design. the trucks came as large as 4.6. its light weight, small in size and displacement, it should still be decent on fuel, yet you should be able to get 250hp out of one without going nuts. there are some specialty items that are needed to put it in a car like a transmission adapter of some sort, check out D&D fabricators they specialized in rocer swaps parts. i say go help spitfire for the rover engine. you can get 4 brl intakes as well as 2x2. offy valve covers, and most speed parts for them.
ive been drooling over the idea since it has been mentioned PA is a bit of a drive-i'd have to drive through all of IN and ohio=at least 12hours-but it would definitely be a tale. and u'd probably not get the smile off my face.
There is nothing special about any automotive engine.....they are all the same basic design....all done to death.....just another internal combustion device used to power a people transporter. Some are more money than the others, but nothing is rare....just expensive. So, just pick something you like and get building.......or,if you want to do something REALLY different with an internal combustion design, cast your own block and heads.
The Jalopy Journal
