Yeah, it does not hit them, it has the same problem if I just plug the hole for the spark plug using my compression tester.
Well maybe this is that phantom small block those guys always talked about that had so much compression that you couldn't crank it with a starter. I'm still betting on that you have too much resistance somewhere in the battery cables, ground/starter circuit. You absolutely have to have clean bare metal at every contact point in that system that means on the block under the starter, below where the ground strap makes contact, between any bracket that the ground strap fastens to and the block/heads. NO ******** paint between those contact spots. As I said earlier in the thread I don't give a damn about what those self styled experts always say about 12 not needing heavier cables, Skinny parts house cables can't handle the amps that heavier cables can. It's like putting a 3/8 hose on a spigot connected to a 3/4 inch pipe and expecting the little hose to carry the same amount of water that the pipe does. little cable = resistance= little hose = resistance. I just went though that on my Big block 1 ton dualie. Serious hot start issues until I put larger cables on it and did the Ford Solenoid trick plus adding a heat shield The minute there was some extra resistance the smaller cables that are listed for the truck wouldn't carry the current needed.
What's the compression tester say when you have it hooked up? How hard is "very hard" to turn? Put a torque wrench on it so you can get a number. Check once with plugs out, write it down. Plugs in, write it down. Compare the two. It sure sounds like your valve overlap is off. What are the specs on the cam card?
Heeeyyyyyy I wanted to ask that. Usually if it will turn with the plugs out it just gets harder with the plugs in (compression perhaps). My 355 is 11.5:1 and I have never had any luck with a GM starter even the high torque starter. But I think I have just had trouble finding a good starter.
Every step of the build you need to check how easily the engine turns, starting with laying in the crank and torqueing the main caps, setting the thrust properly of course. One thing builds on the previous step. I believe the criteria for a short block rotating ***embly should come in under 40 ft-lbs at the crank.
How did you set valves? I'm ***uming stage 2 cam is still just a basic hydraulic cam correct? Sent from my SM-G900V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
If the the thing rotates with no plugs and they don't hit when installed then what? Cam not time correctly? I mean really really off! This is one of those I wish I was there to see and understand it. OK, it's been a few minutes since the above sentences of sense and understanding. Is there a solid stop to the rotation via a breaker bar or is it spongy feeling?
Correct Johnny Gee, and I have checked the time gears and it is set up, it has 3 set up choices, 4° advanced, 4° retard or 0. I have it set at 0 and cylinder 1 and 6 are at TDC. When I try and turn with breaker bar with plug in, it becomes very hard to turn. I haven't wanted to put to much pressure on it.
I'm guessing this is a hydraulic lifter deal. Try priming the oil pump until you have oil coming out of every push rod. Immediately, try turning it over and see if it gets any easier.
I wasn't kidding about the rings. Those oil rings aren't much different than rebuilder stuff. What was it like with the pistons going in? Getting harder with each one? Torque plate honed, or not? Cast or forged? Piston to wall clearance?
Now there's something that will eat up degrees of over lap that would allow for bleed off of compression. I didn't think of that because I've never rotated an engine with dry lifter's. Ever!
Yes, got tougher with each piston. Yes torque play honed. Forged piston, not sure off hand what my clearance was. At the time.
OK If understand this right - It turns with the plugs out and gets harder with each plug you install - Yes of course it will because you are compressing air that was pulled in when you turned the motor.
What we do know engine turns over without plugs so bottom end and pistons can be ruled out Without valves opening it is hard to build up much compression only air that comes in would have to come past the rings Starter?????
Correct as in what I said makes sense to you is nice but that still hasn't answered the question is it a hard dead stop or spongy? Please clarify. Now to the second portion of your quote here. Can you hear air trying to escape within the core of the engine when it get's "hard"?
Valves will open a little with hydraulics bottomed out. Intake slightly open,..the cylinder fills with atmosphere. Closes shortly after. Compression still 9 to 1, besides what leaks past the rings....Long time now until the exhaust opens. Still waiting to here what happens after priming the oil.
Reread the whole post. OK let's say no mechanical issue as OP has stated over and over. What I did not read in 52 posting's is what was used to lube the pistons and rings. Oil or Grease?
Johnny, How about the (new) cam? What's happening to the break in lube? What's he doing spinning it over on the starter, without firing it up, anyway ???
Didn't he say it won't turn over even with a starter? I'm like you. Puzzled and waiting for something to bring all this into some kind of light.
I feel like somewhere,the wires got crossed,and this thing isn’t a 9:1 engine,or the cam has an intake valve opening point that is making the cylinder pressure higher than usual,or the lifters are not real effective without being primed with oil as Mark Yac and Johnny Gee discussed..? Maybe a combo of two or more of these items,plus,as was mentioned,a bunch of ***embly lube being wiped off in attempts to turn the engine over? Could the starter just be ****,or poorly grounded/supplied with insufficient current to do the job? This thread is gonna frustrate me right up to the minute the OP spills the beans on what the real problem was....I’m dying to know. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
How does it spin without plugs? Fast? Normal? Slow grind? Sent from my LG-TP450 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
That would be my guess. Some people read "turn adj. nut 3/4 of a turn after rocker makes contact with valve stem" but don't read "with engine running" I'm ***uming it is a hydraulic cam also. Priming oil pump is essential like Mark said above. Pat
I just want to know how much resistance the damn thing has without plug in, and how much with! I've never had an engine I couldn't turn over with a breaker bar that wasn't somehow stuck, and if it turns over a full 720* with no plugs, we know it's just compression keeping it from spinning.
This is out of my league---I race 120 MPH GO KARTS ----2 strokes NO VALVES . Maybe the rocker arms and push rods are out of adjustment...just a thought--
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