Engineers of yester year compared to today!

pretty sad isn't it,total lack of vocational skills like even knowing how a internal combustion engine functions let alone how to overhaul one! kids today can sit on their asses and be part of a social group playing video games. along with the feeling of "belonging" the get instant reward when they beat who or whatever and never even break a sweat.

 

Something to consider with the new versus old comparison is that 'back in the day' the engineers were very likely also the founder, owner, R&D guy, and shop foreman for the company. No corporate board of CEO's, CFO's, COO's etc to hinder the product development. Olds, Buick, Chevrolet, the Dodges Bro's, Tucker just to name a few. Todays engineers are typically tasked with designing components or systems of a product, rarely a complete product.

Just like art though, engineering is subjective and the which is better argument can go on for ages. If nothing else, you have to respect the accomplishments of the previous generations of engineers for the developing the technological understanding that still governers todays designs. Take a look through any engineering reference at the countless tables, charts and graphs that are used (and taken for granted) today but were develped 100 years ago. Steam tables, refrigerant/fluid charts, stress/strain diagrams, the psychrometric chart? That is the true marvel of the 'old school' engineers, the fact they they figured the stuff out orginially, and it still applies today.

 

The beloved 32 Ford. An all new design, launched with minimal durability testing and huge problems to show for it. Junk engines, frame cracking, bodies cracking. The first (400 or 4000?) cars had to have major retrofits done to be able to sell. Not exactly an engineering triumph and a very poor decision on Henry's part.......all this is chronicled in the 32 Ford book by Thacker.

Today's engineer could almost get away with it, with the CAE and other analytical tools available....till the bean counters stepped in. Been there, done that.

And most of the heavy analytical work at the OEM I was at was being done by foreign born engineers who could care less what the difference between a crankshaft and a window crank is. All they focus on are the results of the analytical model.

 

The best way to see if the original designs were very good can be found in the revisions box on the engineering drawings.
Also the thing I always hated is the salesmen never sold what you just finished designing, building and testing for them.

 

Just a thought, but if you gave the engineers of yesteryear today's resources they'd be like kids in a candystore and the things they would come up with would blow ou little mins in form AND function.

If you gave today's engineers the resources of yesteryear, many would be confused and/or frustrated.

 

Who do you think created the resources we use today?

As always engineering is an evolutionary process. With greater knowledge comes greater ability.

Keep in mind that in 1932 the NTSB didn't exist, and without the stringent crash safety requirements dictated by them (crumple zones, bumpers, etc)I'm sure some wondrous things could be produced.

 

yeah, they were allowed to make good-looking cars!

 

Have to disagree with your choice for. Talking and listening to the guys are going to build it before you submit it as final design configuration. Always amazed how stupid one can look when they find out their wonderful CAD designed part can't be built either cost effectively or with available tool technology. And often a much simpler solution is found on the shop floor.

#1 is the same as always be willing to listen to the guys that are going to try to build your latest widget.

 

Went down this road a few times at Boeing, while it always made sense to standardize processes the mandatory cost reductions and that wonderful "Just In Time" are the 2 most destructive roadblocks to manufacturing and assembly plants.

 

The best answer to that question is the development and flying of the Boeing 747.
Applies to cars but I swear the first totally developed ona computer and into production was something coo-coo like a Chrysler late-model Sebring????

Another comparison, a modern 90s TransAm weighs in at 150 or so pounds HEAVIER than a 1957 Chevrolet BelAir 2door sedan. But is more powerful, gets substantially better gas mileage, and is much safer in a crash.

 

Haha, good thoughts here.
Ultimately we can't know how somebody back then really thought, lived and worked.
We can only see what is left of it and apply our own experiences and knowledge to interpret those things, at best.
Written down knowledge is just that. A finished piece of art or machinery doesn't tell the entire story and what really went into it.

It's somewhat like a piece of century old classical music.
Today we can only marvel and try to interpret it as best we can with todays means.
But was that how people played and sounded or listened and understood music then ?
Next question would be, is it really important ?
The relevance varies from one individual to another. Nobody knows or is right or wrong.


When I was a kid, I always asked older folks how things were really and what they thought back then of this or that.
I was always disappointed of how little info I got out of them, cos they were just tired of it all mostly and didn't seem to want to go back in their mind and memories.

To explain to each other today how things were from generations back reminds me of geologists and anthropologists that reconstruct the past using their limited insights and tell us today how things were.
Every few decades something new is discovered or unearthed and books that have been taught in schools in the meantime have to be rewritten.

I just enjoy what once was and studying how it was done, going back as far as possible in time and appreciate that I can be part of it on the other end, albeit for just a moment that doesn't really matter in the big picture.

 

I've managed engineers for years. Good, bad and otherwise.

Equally important would be considering the quality of the person.

"Work ethic and pride" generally speaking, don't seem to mean as much as it once did.

 

Don't even get me started on new engineers!! If they would listen and didn't know it all, they would be better off.Hands on for them would be great!!

 

Every GOOD Engineer has hands on experience,
and doesn't mind getting his hands dirty.

Too many are stuck up, white collar, desk jockeys,
that can't do anything without their precious software.

 

Unkl Ian you hit the nail on the head. An engineer who has no practial knowledge if worthless!! I woulnder about engineers of today and the cars that come off their boards, whats up with them? Unless they take an older design from real craftsmen (camero anyone) all their stuff looks like shit and is not practical for the guy who has to fix and keep the junk running safe.

 

I've seen more than enough AutoCAD/Solidworks crap.
Stuff that can't be assembled, errors in addition, it never ends.

Any GOOD engineer runs the software, most are just along for the ride.

The best Engineer I worked with, over a span of 5 years,I found
ONE mistake he made on one drawing. The guy was absolutely
brilliant, and would wire and program all the machines I built.

Another "engineer", at the same company, would routinely
make 5 mistakes on EACH and every drawing.


Guess which one still works there.

 

The best engineers today, are capable of stuff unimaginable 30 years ago.

But most don't come close to that mark.

 

I'd pick the old school engineers over the new , today they engineer a car for early obsolescence !

 

just remember,behind every train wreak there is a engineer.

 

http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/whas11-crime-090824-test-drive-questions.111886d01.html

Test driving a brand new Dodge Challenger from the dealership, doing over 100 mph and ran head on into a 23 year old Mercury. The 2 people in the mercury died instantly. The 3 people in the challenger suffered only minor injuries.

I am in no way, shape, or form condoning what the Dodge driver did, but it does a pretty good job of illustrating that new cars do have an incredibly high level of engineering built into them. From what I heard from a cop friend of mine, the challenger was still running after the accident.

The pics on the above link show the Dadge's doors still opening, and the structure intact. The video shows the front of the car.

.....Wasn't there a post here on the hamb a couple weeks ago about 2 people killed in a model A ford that had a head on at something like 30 mph???

 

We have had brilliant engineers throughout world history. The Pyramids are still amazing engineering...The steam engine....the Golden Gate Bridge...etc..etc. Some believe they were space aliens. They were all a lot smarter than me. I believe today's engineers are no less brilliant than those a hundred...or thousand years ago. Cars built over the last 15 years are for the most part the best ever. As one post stated you can get over 150,000 miles on original spark plugs. My '97 Buick Park Avenue had 162,000 on original plugs, coils and plug wires and did not have a miss when I sold it. I could not believe they lasted that long. I remember when at 15,000 miles one cylinder would start missing and you knew to replace them all.

 

That's the truth! Most of the young engineers I've had the fortune (or misfortune) to work with have little to no practical experience in the field they are trying to compete in. Worse yet, they cannot see the practical value of the "undereducated" and cranky old skilled craftsmen that they direct.

I've spent a lot of time badmouthing engineers, but the truth of the matter is that a good engineer is hard to find and harder to keep.

I'd take the old time engineer hands down. He might not know as much as today's, but he could figure it out pretty damn quick.

 

3 words

Tacoma Narrows Bridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge

 

Interesting opinions. Think smart people have always been around, and most engineers are at least smart. The pyramids would be a good example of that. The Roman water works. And old cars too. Like Squrrel, I work in a junkyard while in college, and noticed a ton of low mileage cars, (say 45 to 60 K) coming in, cause there was something wrong with them, rust engine, etc. Seems to me the new stuff lasts much longer, with virtually no maintainance, at least my stuff does. But that doesn't make the cars, or engineers any better, 'cause you are comparing apples to oranges. Having said that, don't think too many new guys could hold a candle to Harry Miller and Leo Goosen.

 

Um, yeah, and how long did the replacement last? Not everyone gets it right the first time out of the gate. I'm not one to defend an engineer, but people still make mistakes up in this area when building things, it's the nature of our geography

I follow the rule "I make mistakes everyday, I just try to make NEW mistakes and not repeat the old ones."

 

They can't be lumped into one pile, like anything else theres good and bad. Just remember each generations successes are built on the backs of the previous one's.

 

I'm still amazed at the technology and at the engineering prowess that the Romans and Egyptians possessed. Wonder what we'd be driving (flying?) if the pace had not been all but stopped in the middle ages??? They had hot & cold running water, metallurgy that we're just recently (in the last century) are rediscovering, and more that I can't think of at the moment. That has always intrigued me.

I have to agree that the 50's and 60's cars that I grew up in were much nicer to look at, but they were a LOT more prone to break down and to leave you stranded. My dad was always under the hood adjusting points, adjusting the choke, changing spark plugs... and when a car went over a 100K miles, man it was cause to celebrate! My '04 Tundra has almost 100K on it, and it has never had the hood open for more than an oil change and to put a K&N filter in it! It's WAY more complicated under the hood, but also WAY more reliable. "Better engineered"??? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!!

 

When I was working with a campus ministry in Philly, we had some students that went to Drexel that had a professor they really admired. Seemed some of the other students in class complained about his final being Pass/Fail.

"I don't understand why I should fail a course when I scored an 86 on the final", and the such were called out in the room.

The professor's answer?

"If I built a house for you that was only 86% structurally sound, would you live in it?"

 

Great being an Engineer, if you slogg your guts out and get the job right
no one remembers,
But when it all goes wrong,
even if it was not your fault,
no one forgets.

Once upon a time, a man in a hot air balloon realized that he was lost. He
reduced altitude and spotted a woman below. He descended a bit more and
shouted. "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him
an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."


The woman below replied. "You're in a hot air balloon hovering
approximately 30 feet above the ground. You're between 50 and 51 degrees
north latitude and between 114 and 115 degrees west longitude."


"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.


"I am," replied the woman. "How did you know?"


"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically
correct, but I've no idea what to make use of your information. The fact
is, I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help at all. If anything,
you've delayed my trip."


The woman below responded, "You must be in management."


"I am," replied the balloonist, "but how did you know?"


"Well," said the woman, "you don't know where you are or where you're
going.
You have risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You
made a promise, which you've no idea how to keep, and you expect people
beneath you to solve your problems. The fact is, you are in exactly the
same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, you've managed
to make it my fault!!"

 

In any given era, there are/were limitations, challenges and external influences, so I think it makes no sense to debate the merit of yesterday's engineer relative to those of today.

There have always been good ___ and bad ___ (fill in the blank with your profession of choice) and there always will be.