ever strech the meaning of STOCK in a race?

Smokey was the best at finding the grey areas in the rule books. We followed his example when we raced stock cars. Truly, if you weren't exploiting the rule book, you weren't fast.

Our cl*** had a rule "No Holley 4-barrel carbs". They checked us out after a race and spot the Holley under the air cleaner, only it was a 2-barrel. The rules were changed on the spot, "NO Holleys, period". We came back with an Autolite the next week and won the feature.

Bob

 

Since reading this post, I have thought about it more.

On the street, anything goes.. not such thing as cheating (if you negotiate no 'N02 rule' then you should not run it, even a hidden bottle, if they say you much disconnect a specific bottle sitting in your trunk, then a hidden bottle on is OK..).

at a professional event, if you stretch the grey areas than that is OK also, that is compe***ion ..

at an event like you described (a fun event) then ya it is cheating. especially when you knew your motor was way out of the category you put it in. if only they had a "Call Out" policy and someone made you tear the engine down to prove it.

 

You said it all when you said "HID". You knew you were cheating. Your trophy is meaningless. Run for office...

 

I got cheated the other way once. Dragged my 63 Ford 390 w/427 heads & intake to Detroit "nationals" in the early 70's. Told the tech guy what is was & he put it in a cl***. After I beat a BB Chevelle in eliminations he had the tech guys looking all over my car. Tech guys wanted me to put up the money to tear it down or run it as a 428 in D/HR. All this fuss over a plastic trophy. Must have been my lucky weekend. Not a lot of cars in that cl*** & I won the cl***. Saw the Chevelle that winter at Detroits Autorama show. He was proudly displaying his OTC/LATE trophy from that weekend. A good laugh was had by all.

 

Yep I have and always will stretch the rules like a piece of taffy. That's racin'.

 

Perhaps the OP should change his handle to Lance Armstrong....

 

Been a looooong time since I've seen anything racing that was strictly stock.

But the OP has gone 'way overboard here. (believe it or not, high compression, full oiling system, insert bearing rods, full balance, 25 lbs. shaved from flywheel, V8 clutch, stainless valves, and stiff springs DO make a difference on a 'banger...) LOL
Actually, it's a 'night & day' comparison.

 

There is a major difference between being innovative and finding holes in the rules (which to me is what some refer to as bending the rules) and cheating. This is just plain cheating. To those that consider cheating to be fine and a just a part of racing, dishonesty is a slippery slope...livestrong

 

OP says the other guy admitted he was cheating.

Couldn't be more fair of a race.

 

I've never been able to figure out why people brag about cheating.

 

I got to hear Ray Nichels talk at a WingedWarrior (Daytona/Superbird) national meet one year. When asked about "bending" the rules in NASCAR with a wink in his eye he said "Cheatin? naw we wern't cheatin' we was just bein compe***ive!"

Nichels Engineering was a seven (7) time NASCAR winner at Daytona from 1957-1970. Winning drivers were Cotton Owens, Bobby Isaac, Paul Goldsmith (2), AJ Foyt, Sam McQuagg and Charlie Glotzbach.

 

My gawd, I never seen so many halo's. Is this choir practice, or a hotrod board?

 

I ran a NASCAR street stock and the cl*** escalated year by year. If you weren't cheatin' you were running in the back of the pack. It was like the whole Tour de France being on steroids.

I ran 4th at Riverhead one night, go to the payoff window and they give me 2nd place money. WTF?? Turns out the first 2 guys over the line got busted in a visual post-race inspection. It was something dumb and blatant. We tried to be subtle about anything we did.

Bob

 

Times are changing. Guess the new generation of the bureaucratically inclined likes to make and have lots of rules. That being said, it's pretty cheesy to cheat people who aren't even really racing their antiques.

 

stock and "stock" are the same to most people haha

 

I think some of the guys losing their minds over this post need to relax a bit,and take it in context:#1:It was not an event where there was lots of money at stake or where he threw somebody's points out of whack for the season.It was just a recreational event.#2:In my eyes he wasn't even cheating.He simply mixed and matched similar parts from the same manufacturer but different models/model years.It was such a good quality,correct looking restoration that the tech inspectors laid hands on it and GAVE IT THEIR BLESSING.That right there should be the end of discussion.#3:The other cars in cl*** were also clearly Hot Rods and had done some work to improve their combos without blatantly throwing a blower or a completely different type of motor in the car?As car guys,that's what we do.Have any of you gone through the trouble and expense of doing a complete engine rebuild without porting the heads?Or putting a decent cam profile in the thing instead of a lame stocker?Just having the block decked,and resurfacing the cylinder heads to true everything up can raise compression by a full point in a hurry.
It seems to me like a lot of guys just jumped on the bandwagon once they saw a few people bash this guy.Well **** that!I wanna give the OP a big old "ATTA BOY!!!!"
Why? Cause the dude is clearly a HOT RODDER!


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Lol!I read you there Trucked up.Ive pulled the same type of stuff with grinding "Edelbrock" off of aluminum intakes and applying blue paint,painting aluminum cylinder heads,aluminum rads,sandblasting MSD distributors,etc.But in fairness,it was more for my own peace of mind and amu*****t.It just seems like the right thing to do when you can put together a 500+ hp 289 stroked to 347 inches,then have it look pretty stock,and not at all out of place in a '60's themed car.The Autolite 4100 carb is the one that really gets them though;"he's running that old thing on there,it can't be too fast if he isn't runnin a Holley"....little do they know there are SuperStock O/T Mustangs running in the 10's with a 289 and stock Autolite carb.
It's just fun to build a sleeper that's not all flash.Some of us would rather look slow and go like hell,than look like Ricky Racer,and run so slow you need to time us with a sun dial...



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I raced with guys who laboriously mixed brake drum shavings and paint, applied it to their aluminum intakes to p*** the magnet test. We ran Autolite 2BBL and 4BBL carbs and beat tons of Holleys. Gasoline has no idea what it's flowing through.

We went to great lengths to keep the motors looking as uninteresting as possible. All creative ch***is mods were coated with flat black paint and spritzed with thinned out used motor oil and lacquer thinner.

Bob

 

Damn, I've never seen so many self-righteous *****s on one thread in the Hamb, ever!

 

...I wouldn't go that far...maybe Top 100 threads.....

 

Seriously! If it p***es tech, it's legal. End of story.

 

A ceratin amount of skill goes with putting one over on the tech inspectors. The ones I used to deal with ran hot and cold with what they chose to enforce, even better when one showed up to an event too drunk to stand.

Bob

 

Damn! if you ran a "by the rules street stock" at our local dirt round track you would get lapped in the first 2 laps of the race!
28

 

^ or black flagged for running to slow...seen it...Sunset Speedway, NE

NASCAR covers it in the "Spirit of the rules"

Smokey Yunick did more for racing and bending rules then NASCAR (France) will ever admit. He should be in their hall of fame.....I doubt he will be elected....He was the master of engine and body modifications that would fool a seasoned tech inspector.

 

a friend ran a J/SS plain jane looking car used a tow bar another car showed up with matching equipment sponsored by a speed shop and was trailered on the first run went and checked out my friends car, he opened the hood for the guy, looked and said I got beat by that you must be cheating. loaded up and left not to ever return

 

I've raced damn near forty years and have never understood how somebody can get any pleasure out of winning by cheating. Exploiting gray areas in the rules is part of the game, but deliberately running something modified in a way that you know is illeagal just means you're a liar and a cheat. If you've got a kid show him your stolen trophy and explain to him how cheating to get it was the right thing to do. I've been winning races and following the rules for that forty years, just have to work a little harder and smarter than the compe***ion. And it doesn't matter if it's for a million bucks or just bragging rights, you've either honest or not.

 

I was a pit stewart for several years.. I learned a lot of very good tricks being able to inspect all those cars.. I later returned as a car owner... Now as a still active Owner// some time Driver// sponsor// I still push that rules to the limit and some times over the top.. I have been caught several times.. And I was DQ two for CHICKEN **** reasons also.. One time I was DQ for 3/10 of 1 percent or 9 lbs over on left side week .. 2 weeks later a man won the race and was 3/10 over and the same chicken **** stewart said "" the scales can be off 3/10 of 1 % he let him keep the win..

 

When you cheat, you cheat only yourself.

Did some innovations come from cheating or stretching the rules ? Yes of course. But they can and have come from legitimate innovators who were not trying to pull one over on someone.

Cheating is nothing to be proud of no matter what your name is and anything you may have accomplished when doing so means basically nothing even if your name is Lance Armstrong or Smoky Yunick.

 

Yunick was very innovative that's for sure.His wins in Nascar faded away when it grew more technical and harder to push something past inspectors.Or there was better compe***ion or they cheated better
I've read his books and one thing for sure,he can be full of himself at times.He wasn't winning but he still ****ed with Nascar because he hated to be told what to do...and Bill France

 

The best Smokey story was about his '67 Chevelle. It was rumored to be either 7/8 or 15/16 scale, turns out it measured up 100% legal on the template NASCAR came up with. The car was full of other slick tricks, nothing illegal at that time.

He moved windows out on the body for aerodynamics, doctored up the front spoiler and smoothed out the floor pan and tucked the exhaust up to reduce drag.

He actually built 2 of them. Curtis Turner wrecked the first one. The other got torn down to inspect the fuel cell, Smokey had had enough and the gas line had enough gas for him to drive the car from Daytona Speedway back to his garage in town.

Bob