Technical EVERYBODY is Stumped with no suggestions

Carb model 2041S

no visual modifications as per my inspection, and as per Mikes Carburetor Parts guy looking over my photos and my listed jet sizes that I measured as thoroughly as possible two days ago.
Years ago I found mods to my dads Rochester 4jet square bore from his 59 caddy, running through fuel and gawking plugs and running rich.
It wasn’t until I measured the tips of the main metering jets or orifices tubes that I found out someone had drilled them out at the bottom much larger than they were supposed to be….

anyhow, doing re***embly now and going to do more in car tests.

 

Yes they are opening freely, I do this under the hood, not from the cab. The secondaries open freely in increments after half throttle

 

Who is the Carb King?

 

So there you go it appears it is not an unmolested original car as it is not jetted to factory sizing if your measurements are correct.

 

OK I am very glad you mentioned that. And this engine has never been rebuilt. It is n it’s original condition I know this from 30 years of restoring cars. Also, I could not find any information on the WCFB for the 1954 New York, a deluxe with a two speed, automatic, and a four barrel carburetor.

I sent all of my specifications to Mike’s carburetors, and he did not have any issue with the measurements in my carburetors makeup.

would you happen to have the literature on what size the primary main jets, metering rod diameters, secondary main jets and the 4 low speed jets should be for this carburetor to work as factory for this 331 with a WCFB that has four 1-1/16” Venturis, carb tag 2041-S (D 4 4)?

 

I’m sure the old man could’ve had this original WCF be replaced with another WCFB over the last 10,000 years this car has been alive…..

 

Some times you can't see the forest bla bla bla

 

Look at the other post I quoted. Post 49. CarbKing laid it all out.

 

Here my jets, front and rear, and my low speed jets.
If these don’t belong in the 2041S, can you name what jets do?

 

Yes, that’s why I came to you homey *** folk….

 

Ok going to look at post 49.

 

I gotta start at the first page and count every single post? I don’t see any post numbers Lord I hate this phone I’m using lol.

 

LOL no you can either click on the quoted post both Tman and I quoted to open it or the post number is in the bottom right corner of every post.

 

Okay I found it!!!!! Woooohoooooo!

I do not know how it runs the way it is but I am going to now search for new front and rear Jets to match what you said but what about the metering rods? What should the diameter of the metering rods be according to your paperwork?

 

This probably isn't the most helpful reply, but I had the exact problem with a rebuilt WCFB on my 1955 331 Cadillac. I wound up swapping it for a rebuilt Rochester 4JET and never looked back.

 

nope there aren’t any numbers in the bottom right hand side of my stupid iPhone, but I found it



The OP suggests the engine is all original, thus the carburetor should be a 2041s.

Comparing the calibrations listed by the OP to original:

Secondary jets: now .055~.056, original .0595
Metering rod power step: now .059~.060, original .058
Primary jets: now .080, ORIGINAL .0935

So 4 1/2 sizes lean on primary jets, 1 size lean on metering rod power step, and 2 sizes lean on the secondary jets!
How does it even run 65 MPH?????

 

Hey stud, i’m trying to keep this cars original as I can for my customer and if the outsides of this carburetor is what came on the 54 Chrysler, then the outside stays the same and I will fix the inside to match what Carb king Jon said

 

My black spark plugs do not indicate that it is running lean like spoken of but I will try anything at this point to make this carburetor perform like a normal carburetor so I’m calling Mike and I’m gonna order a set of front and rear jets and a set of metering rods to match and I’m gonna make sure I have the correct low-speed jets. Also, there’s four of them in this carburetor, along with for air bleeds.

Mike’s is located only about 71 miles south of me. I should take the whole carburetor there and do this in person lol.

 

Jon (CarbKing) has his contact info in his signature as well if you want to talk to him directly. May not show up on your phone so here it is.
The Carburetor Shop of Missouri 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues CT)

 

Excellent thank you for that. Since Mike’s is only 70 miles away I’m going to call him first and if they have the jets I need I’m taking my entire body with me top and bottom so we can verify that that’s what needs to be in person. I really hope that I can get this taken care of today. It’s been too long in my shop, I gotta get customers cars out and in.

 

Might want to go over the float settings while you're in there. The specification is 1/8" and 1/4" for primaries and secondaries, respectively, and there's also a spec for float drop that you need to be aware of.
https://www.carburetor-blog.com/knowledge-base/wcfb-specifications/

 

Seriously? he has already posted here and given you the best answer to solve your problem. Perhaps you should review and read your own post.

 

It was late when I saw his post and I didn’t catch it. It was mixed in with three other notifications. I am heading down to Mike’s in Chehalis Washington right now, to pick up all the proper jets that Mr. carburetor king suggested I have in this carburetor.

 

This is not an issue of float drop if it was an issue a float drop or float level, it wouldn’t happen, while stabbing the throttle from a standstill, while parked in neutral from my experience, that would only come into play under load.

 

Gary -

Idle tubes 11-250s (0.0292 inch) 4 each
Metering rods 75-941 superseded by 75-1106 (0.071x0.062x0.058 inch) 2 each
Primary jets 120-166 (0.0935 inch) 2 each
Secondary jets 120-185 superseded by 120-196 (0.0595 inch) 2 each
Vacuum piston spring 61-332

Looks like from the picture your idle tubes are the correct number; you can measure the size with a set of orifice drills.

Jon

 

Thank you John I’m gonna take this information with me down to Mike’s and get everything set up the way this 20 41S is supposed to be.
I’ll be there in about an hour and a half.

thank you for all of this wonderful information!

 

I am at mikes now. My current metering rods are 75-1106 like you said belongs. My slow idle jets are 11-250s, like you said.

im buying two primary jets and two secondary jets, but there’s a catch….

mike has these in stock

 

To see post numbers, signature info, etc. turn your Iphone screen horizontal, and be sure it rotates.

I'm glad we seem to finally be moving toward a carb that will perform satisfactorily.

 

OK, I re-measured my jets when I got to the carburetor shop my rear jets are one 120-196 and measure .059 exactly, my front jets measure out to .092”. So my measuring tools absolutely ****ed. I did buy a set of 27–94, which makes them a .094 jet but I don’t think I need that large of a jet in my primaries. I stepped up to .062 on secondary jets.

we discussed it a lot, and I’m going to start looking into where a possible vacuum leak could be in the secondary system by pressure testing the bare block of the carb when I get back home n an hour and a half.

 

OK, so the measurements originally given were a red herring. Glad it turned out that way, as it saved you purchasing some parts (metering rods are NOT cheap!).

The 27-94 jets are NOT Carter. If they were manufactured by whom I think they were, I would measure them before installing! But the 92's are almost a size lean.

So, where do we go from here?

IF THE CARBURETOR IS THE ISSUE:

(1) you mentioned that the automatic choke is correctly adjusted, but is it functioning correctly? If the choke ****erfly is not fully vertical (in other words, off), then the secondaries will not function correctly. Have you verified the position of the choke ****erfly when the engine is hot?

(2) Have you verified that pushing the footfeed to the floor actually opens the secondaries (throttle linkage issues)?

(3) That model WCFB has two "sight plugs" in the float bowl; one on the primary side, one on the secondary side. Have you removed these plugs with fuel pressure on the carburetor to test the actual fuel levels in the bowls. The fuel level should be just below the thread in the carburetor bowl where you removed the sight plug. Not doubting your adjustment of the floats; I just like testing to verify what I think I know.

(4) A vacuum leak on the secondary side is intriguing; however, that would not explain why 65 MPH is the maximum on the PRIMARY side of the carburetor. It might be slow getting there, but that car should run 85 on the primary side alone.

If the carburetor is not the issue:

Have you placed a fuel pressure gauge right at the carburetor to see if the carburetor is actually receiving fuel at higher fuel requirements. I have seen stopped up fuel filters or a leak in a fuel line ****ing air which would cause an engine just to not rev any higher than a certain RPM. Which brings into play another question for which I have not seen an answer in your posts.............does the leveling off of the RPM occur in all gears or only in high? What happens if you lock the transmission in low, and accelerate? Will the engine accelerate past the leveling off RPM of high gear?

I feel the secondary issue might be coincidental to the carburetor running out of fuel on the primary side.

Keep posting, we will keep listening.

Jon.