everything is hooked up, but it wont turn over!! whats wrong!?

well i need help guys. i have another thread going on but i thought maybe the ***le would be misleading. my dad asked me to post this on this website, to try and get some help from more experienced people who've been around this, and might know the solution:

the problem: my 1958 fairlane has a new motor in it. a 292 v8 y-block. we have all the necessities hooked up. Sunday, we had it all hooked up, went to turn the key in the on position. i hit the blinkers to check, and yes, the blinkers came on and off. then, i turned it all the way over, and the engine cranked. we did this a few times now, but then we relized we got the firing order wrong.

we stopped for about 10 minutes, got it dead center, then re-did the firing order to the correct way. now, i put the key back in place, turned it on, hit the blinker....... NOTHING happened. turned it all the way over, no sound was made.



possible reasons for this?: my dad first thought it was the starter solenoid. we went out TODAY and got a brand new one, hooked it up and everything. again, nothing happened.
he now thinks we blew out the ignition? but i just replaced this a year ago in my dash when i took it out to paint it.

we took a test light, touched it to the battery, it has power, the solenoid... it has power. the starter... it has power. everything has power.


the only thing that is different from saturday than from today when we tried again, was the battery. the charger said it was only half charged. but even if that was the problem, the blinkers should have still gone off we would think.
please help us out. we tried everything suggested in this thread i posted:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255655

it'd be much appreciated, thanks a lot guys

 

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there is a link to what it was doing sunday, BEFORE, we changed the firing order and such. now when i turn the key nothing happens. not sure if this helps or not.

 

Check fuses

 

It sounds like the firing order is still out.

Flatman

 

the firing order has something to do with whether or not the car turns over even? and as for the fuses we checked all of 'em. they all work to

 

Is there a GOOD ground?

 

check for power at the starter on the small terminal, known as the "s" terminal when your dad turns the key to cranking position.

 

Fusible link? Check continuity too.

 

Go to autozone or harbor freight and get a remote starter switch. Hook one terminal to the solenoid and the other to the positive on the starter.

Or use a 1/2 of a battery jumper cable laying around.

By-p*** the starter switch is what I'm saying, eh?

 

I would check for power on the solenoid exciter wire during the crank position. If nothing is there, start probing toward the ingnition on the wire. Go about a foot at a time, it sounds like possibly the fusible link? When these "blow" it isn't usually visible.

 

well i just showed my dad all of your guy's replies. he said he'll try this one:

"check for power at the starter on the small terminal, known as the "s" terminal when your dad turns the key to cranking position."

as for the 'GOOD ground', he said to ask on the motor or what? i personally think you meant a good ground on everything... but just thought i'd ask on his part.

and the fusible link comments... he said he doesnt know where any are on my car. :-/ we'll definatley check everything out tomorrow though, from ground one. so far this is a lot of help guys thanks. and we had the remote starter switch, then my dad sorta 'cut it up' and tried to by-p*** the ignition switch. he said he heard it turn over for a second or two then it didnt do it again.

 

It doesn't take long to just pull the starter. Then operate it on the bench with a battery.

Sometimes a person will spend a week playing around, then pull the starter and find the problem right away.

Make sure the shaft rotates without any grinding noises like something is jammed in it, or the brushes are gone.

 

well we dont think thats the problem. because when it was turning over the other day it made no wierd sounds or anything. but we might resort to that if the other suggestions dont work after we try 'em.

 

Years ago I had a Y-block do that to me. Turned out the starter bendix was jammed into the flywheel! Found it when I dropped the starter out.

Hope you find that it's a simple fix. Good luck with it.


jerry

 

If your battery was half-charged and your blinkers don't work today but they did yesterday it sounds like the battery and/or its connections are the first place to check. Charge your battery overnight. Clean the terminals and connectors with a wire brush and snug them up. You can try the brake lights or something else that shouldn't need the ignition (key) turned to accessory, on, or start to see if the battery has any power. It still might not be enough to turn the engine over if it's a bad battery and it's probably working harder if you have the firing order and/or distributor timing wrong/off. You can get the starter checked for free at some auto parts stores, and I think they can check your battery under load, too. I had a similar problem with my car yesterday and it ended up being the battery terminals and connectors needed to be cleaned.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

The starter may be locked up engaged.If its a stick put it in high gear and push back on the front of car rocking it .You can usualy hear it when it unlockes.Then ckeck starter bolts to see if lose.

 

thats what i thought to... with the battery terminals needing cleaning again. but yea thanks for all these replies, they're great. cant wait to try em out tomorrow to see which one might be the possible answer to the problem

 

so if im reading this right its a fresh rebuild, and its no longer turing over, ie motor not moving just for a shot in the dark put a socket on the crank and make sure the motor turns over maybe got a dry bearing or something on the previous day before the plug wire change, either that or pull the starter

 

i shoulda mentioned its an automatic ******. and we're pretty sure its nothing to do with the neutral saftey switch either just in case someone brings that up. we checked that out sunday when we were getting it to turn over..

 

If you have power to the solenoid but the lights, blinkers, etc., don't work then it's a grounding problem, not a jammed starter. Clean the battery terminal and also where the ground strap connects to the frame. Also make sure your engine it grounded also...but don't worry about that for now...get the lights working and your starter should begin to spin.

 

thanks a lot for the reply's everyone, i copied them and pasted them in a word do***ent, showed 'em to my pops... tomorrow after school we'll go over to my grandmas and mess around with it again i guess. i hope we get it goin...

 

Check the battery ground...follow the black wire from battery...clean it very well and it's attachment point.

No blinker means no power. charge the battery, check all connections for clean and contact. It would be best if you have a meter, not a light to verify voltage at each point in the starting system.

Also, your distributor is 180 degrees out...that's why the gas is blowing through the carb in the video. When you changed the wires, if you were on the exhaust stroke then the wires are still screwed up. Check the manual for the correct rotor position at tdc and #1 to verify what you've done to this point.

 

I replied in the first thread, but here....what you really need to do is get in the car, and test everything. Things that will be working with no key even in the ignition...headlites, tails, brakelites, **** like that. They work? Then put key in the acc position for radio etc, then on for things that are only supposed to work key hot....turn signals, you should have 12v+ at the coil, **** like that. See where, if at all, **** stops working.

My point is if you are noticing a pattern of electricals not working as listed above, you can pull the starter out and check firing order all you want, but it aint going to do **** for ya...you have an electrical problem somewhere. Could it be a bad ign switch? Sure. Busted wire here or there? Sure. Even with a 1958 Ford you could have a myriad of problems keeping the flow of electricity from the ocean (battery) down the rivers (circuits).

I stress again what I said in the last post, if you have an electrical problem see if you can find someone competent in diagnosis of said problem who owns a test light, multimeter and power probe...(at least test light) to help you. Otherwise you are just banging your head against the wall. You could end up being $800 easily into "new parts" when the problem was just a bad ground or corroded terminal somewhere. The internet is great but with electricals its a case by case problem, not "if B doesnt work, A is broken".

 

I feel for you. I have seen the terror that is an early(ish) ford wiring harness.
My suggestion is check the starer first-Jerry's suggestion of the bendix is a common occurance.

and don't be afraid to throw a charger on the battery-just for grins. stranger things have happened.

 

You indicate that the blinkers don't work, so I am going on the premise that the headlights still do.

The blinkers and starter have one common component, the ignition switch.

That is same thing that UnionVilleHaunt was driving at and the other fella with jumping your solenoid terminals.

Tony

 

I'm gambling on it's a bad ground or battery connection. You can have a bad connection that'll allow enough juice to flow to make a test light work but once you bump it or even hit the lights it'll cut. Once you've triple checked that start following the your wires with the test light. See if there's power going in and out of your ignition switch, short out your solinoid with a screw driver, that'll let you know if it's your starter or not.

 

well lemme update you guys on what happened today.

i printed out everything you guys wrote, right? and we TRIPLE checked everything. we honest to god did everything you guys wrote and suggested, and still nothing.

no... the headlights dont work either el greco... my dad said that there is a bad ground somewhere, and we tested every single one of em, and the only one that came up bad was the ignition one. i have an old ignition key switch that i'll put in this weekend, and we'll see if we can turn it and the blinkers will at least come on. but me and my dad were baffled at how nothing worked, especially with all the great advice and suggestions.

but we did them all.... not a thing worked.

 

If nothing works, then you aren't getting power. Likely candidates are a bad ground or low battery.

If the headlights don't work then change the ignition switch all you like, it isnt going to do ****.

It sounds like you don't really understand electricity. If I were closer I would give you a hand.

I'm sure it's something stupid and simple. If you don't understand electricity, things like this can be very confusing.

 

the battery has full power. and i relize that the ignition switch and headlights dont correspond with one another.... its my dad that thinks that. i told him that doesnt make sense if the lights arent working but he's saying i need to switch ignition switches....
but yea i realize your point there bort62. i know i come off sounding stupid and all you car-experts are shaking your head at us im sure, so im sorry if i come off sounding dumb and what not.

 

No, you don't sound stupid because you are on here asking an honest question and admitting you don't know what is going on. There are PLENTY of people on this board who would be just as baffled in your same situation.

For some reason, electricity seems to be black magic to car guys.

If the battery is good, then you either have a bad ground, or a bad power wire. Fusible links is one possibility... You said you have power @ the solenoid? If so - jumper across the solenoid w/ a screwdriver and see if it cranks. If so, that suggests it's not the ground. If not - it suggests that it is. (normally would suggest a bad starter, but since nothing else works - gnd is more suspect)

If it cranks, I would start tracing wires away from the solenoid hot post to the rest of your **** and see where it's ****ed up.