Got a "friendly" quote from one of the local muffler shops for head and tail pipes and inexpensive gl***packs for my F-1 today. I'm installing Fenton headers on the flatty, so there's nothing tricky about the head pipes. Anyway, the quote was "about four hundred bucks," which more often than not translates as $500. I know I'm out of touch with real-world prices, as my daughters are quick to point out, but four-hundred-plus smackers seems way stiff for 30 feet of muffler tubing and $50 worth of Smithy's. Yeah, I know that the tubing has to be bent, swedged, and hung, and I also know that it's little more than an hour's work for a competent installer with an old Huth bender and the necessary card. And that brings me to the core of my plea for help: Does anyone have a Huth bender and the cards, or maybe just the cards? The benders were sold with a substantial "library" of data cards covering popular cars and light trucks going well back into the '50s. There was also a box of blank cards provided so the installer could create a card for a car or truck when there was not an existing card -- just in case he had another one come in later on. While I'm reasonably sure that Huth provided cards for F-1 and early F-100 Ford pickups, I'm hoping that if they did not, someone on the board might know of one that was made up for a Huth bender of their acquaintence. I have a friend with an old Huth bender (with no cards) tucked in a dark corner of his sheet-metal shop, and if I can find a card for a 1948 Ford F-1 I can do the work myself, save a ton of bucks, and revel in the satisfaction of achieving both goals. All I need is a photocopy, or a file attached to an e-mail with the card data and I'm halfway home. TIA for any and all help.
[ QUOTE ] Got a "friendly" quote from one of the local muffler shops for head and tail pipes and inexpensive gl***packs for my F-1 today. I'm installing Fenton headers on the flatty, so there's nothing tricky about the head pipes. Anyway, the quote was "about four hundred bucks," [/ QUOTE ] was that from kenny d.? he sould do you better than that. love and respect, nic
$400 does seem steep. When I had duals put on my long-as-a-oil-tanker 60 Buick, including gl***packs and a set of chrome tips, it was only $225.
Call minute muffler in Modesto... A little bit of a drive... but probably cheaper. Last one I had them do was $250. Sam.
av8, if ya don't have any luck by Monday, you may want to try my little brother Kyle at Gorlick Dist. @ (206) 624-8420 It's a large exhaust warehouse in Seattle. He knows a few hundred muffler men
While I'm nowhere near you, I just had duals with gl***paks installed on the 49 chevy fastback I had for $175.00. That was with me installing the split manifolds first. And ran out the back using my chrome tips. $400 seems alittle steep, but maybe it's a time-zone thing!
Id go for the do it yourself route Av8......sure its a regional thing- but thats about twice the midwest prices. Id bet that is a simple set of bends that could be done easily on that bender manually without the auto-program card.
I've seen a local guy use a piece of copper wire. He bends the wire where he wants the center of the pipe. Then uses it as a pattern when bending.
The good place here does dual with flowmasters for $250, $200 if you supply mufflers. You can get a cheap job for about $175 with cheap gl***packs. So I think it's a little steep. Unless it's a mandrel bent exhaust...
$400 sounds WAY out of line. The last exhaust system I had installed ran me less than $300 for a full custom exhaust system from headers back, including 2 Flowmasters and installation of exhaust tips that I supplied. That price included the mufflers and they're worth $60? each. Ed PS- I live in Philadelphia, so I should be at the high end of any regional difference.
good luck on your quest, sounds interesting. the price though is not surprising, I spent that much on my Stude about a year ago, it took two guys about four hours and looked like a million bucks. good quality materials, all tucked up nice and neat and solid as a rock. Paul
Our "friend" at the Muffler shop here hit us that hard for that Model A Phaeton we just finished. I dont see the cost justified.
Every area will have it's own rent and over head costs. When I started in 1978, I got 200.00 for a dual job on every new p/u that hit the street with no over head in my garage. I'd charge 400.00 tax included for the same job with the old style Flow masters today. Gl***packs or turbos would run 350.00. That's with the 14 ga. aluninized tubing. I don't know if you can still get the rust in 6 months old **** anymore. Even a good tubing bender will take 2-3 hours to do a good job with the hangers and the many trips back and forth to the bender to get it just right. Buy the tubing, mufflers, hangers, pay the rent, electric and make a modest profit and it adds up. If I quote a price, that is the price. no surprises when you pick it up. Some jobs like yours would be a piece of cake to make up for the PITA jobs that fight you all the way. Do the old welding rod trick. Bend up some gas welding rod to represent the center line of the tubing. To make an off set make a 20 degree bend to start with then rotate the pipe exactly 180 degrees and bring it back the same 20 degrees. Hold a tape up to measure the distance between the bends. If that's not enough add 10 degrees to each bend. It's easier to add to the bend than to try to take some out. You can take a little out to get it just right then restrike the bend to pretty it up. With a ladder frame pick up get the down tube parallel to the frame as soon as you can. Once the front tube is parallel and square, matching the bends will keep everything neat and square with out a bunch of "kicks" to straighten it out. The least amount of bends makes the neatest system. With your eye it'll be a piece of cake. The fun ones are the 58-64 GM X frames with the tail pipes running in the notch formed by the X frame and the floor pan foot wells. P.S. I may have the card for the original single tail pipe but it probably wouldn't be much help. There won't be a card for the other side.
My guy in our shop would do that job for 150 plus parts, down here in Santa Cruz , drive or tow it down and use the rest of the money to have some fun while you are here .
I was at Rocco and Cheaters Speed shop and he has about 800 sets of pipe kits fron the 40s thru the 60s. The manager is Sam a fellow hamber but does not log on often. It might be worth a call 205 328 5141 oh yes they have been in business since 1946 and still has lots of old things I hope this helps. Your book is the best I have ever seen Thanks for all your good work.. Bobby..
Sorry but 4-500 sounds about right to me for wine country prices. If I was you and had access to a bender, id just go for it. exhaust tubing is cheap if you go to the right place ( about a buck a foot in sacramento ) like a exhaust supply warehouse. I did my own on my comet - my dads 40 - lots of trucks at work. Its the same old thing. if you want something done right you got to do it your self. Unless you have a lot of money, sometimes. BTW Do you ever see my dad over there? He's in Napa, primer red 40 coupe with moon discs. Likes to hall *** around with the lake caps off.
Sam at Rocco and Cheater "Rules" he is known as pinstriper here on the board.He don't post a lot but reads the board and his pm's so send him a pm and ask............Marq
Tommy -- Thanks, good info. Believe it or not, I wrote the audio-visual operator training program for the Huth bender decades ago and employed the welding rod trick for making up pipes for which Huth didn't supply a card. It looks as though I'll be doing that for my F-1. I agree that a ladder-frame scheme like this is easily done. I think the tailpipes can be identical; there's nothing that gets in the way. The head pipes are also very simple, although probably mirror images of one another rather than identical. You've probably heard the horror stories about dim-bulb muffler installers in the early '60s using the hot-wrench to "open up" those annoying diagonals in GM cars to make it easier to fit a five-dollar tailpipe! Wouldn't you love to have those clowns working for you in today's litigious world?! If you have a card I'd greatly appreciate having a copy of it. Even if it skews the over-axle bend to one side or snakes the pipe in one horizontal direction, that can be reversed for the other side. TIA -- Mike
I'd do that in a heartbeat, johndanger, except I'd have to navigate my way through four counties with open headers; towing or even trailering is not an option in my book. Thanks for the offer.
Sam -- The distance thing is a bit of a problem. I'm going to have to drive the truck to the system-install site with the unmuffled Fentons in place. While I could certainly endure, and actually enjoy the uncensored flatmotor music for the couple of hours it would take to travel to Modesto, I'm not so sure that the resident constabulary along my route of travel would feel the same.
[ QUOTE ] Tommy -- Thanks, good info. Believe it or not, I wrote the audio-visual operator training program for the Huth bender decades ago and employed the welding rod trick for making up pipes for which Huth didn't supply a card. It looks as though I'll be doing that for my F-1. I agree that a ladder-frame scheme like this is easily done. I think the tailpipes can be identical; there's nothing that gets in the way. The head pipes are also very simple, although probably mirror images of one another rather than identical. You've probably heard the horror stories about dim-bulb muffler installers in the early '60s using the hot-wrench to "open up" those annoying diagonals in GM cars to make it easier to fit a five-dollar tailpipe! Wouldn't you love to have those clowns working for you in today's litigious world?! If you have a card I'd greatly appreciate having a copy of it. Even if it skews the over-axle bend to one side or snakes the pipe in one horizontal direction, that can be reversed for the other side. TIA -- Mike [/ QUOTE ] Remind me monday to look if I forget. My mind is compartmentalized into work, hot rods and useless ****. Sometimes they don't intertwine. If they made a card I will at least be able to get you the card # The new card files are on CD's that are printed out when needed. I didn't sping for the CD when I have the old cards.
. Better never than late. Depending on the rotation dial used, you can make a mirror image tail pipe for the other side. I hope this helps.
Mike, you can always go the route of fab your own with mandrel U-bends and lots of cutting and welding to fit it. That's what I did on my 37 truck when faced with the same too high of cost estimates. Even installed cutouts while I was at it..
Tommy -- Good as your word! Thanks, pal. I've captured the image and will print it out, take it to my pal's shop and bend me some tubes! Damn! It's great to see one of those old cards! Mike
I'd avoid the temptation to up the size to 2". Most of the guys want the bigger is better tubing but I discovered that the motor loses the distinctive flatty sound.
I agree, Tommy. I want a system that has that wonderful characteristic Ford V8 rap. Much of that great sound is produced by the long, skinny tailpipes. I want to end the tailpipes with 1-3/4-inch pencil tips extending about an inch beyond the rear bumper. I'm thinking 2-inch headpipes and cutouts with an eye (ear?) to good breathing with the headers uncorked, when the rap isn't so important. For a while I was considering terminating the system with a pair of 2-inch stainless cab stacks that exited the underside of the sheetmetal through the runninboard aprons and ran straight up at the rear cab corners. Kind of a neat old-time speed-shop truck look, but then old-guy reality set in and I began to think about that straight-pipe rap going on just a couple of feet from my ears!
I'm no stranger to building a system from manderel bends and straight tube, Terry. I was pretty comfortable with that kind of work by the time I finished the system on my roadster. I'm looking to do a more repeatable and affordable, real-world system for my F-1, the kind of system that is easily reproduced, even manufactured for other F-1 owners.
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