I'm researching issues I'll be addressing when I get Clarence back on the road and begin working on the Model A. Hopefully this will happen this coming autumn. I've searched here, read many threads, and downloaded several pix. Here's the situation: '31 Model A 2 door sedan 401 Nailhead B-W Super T-10 4 speed trans Hurst Compe***ion Plus shifter F-1 clutch/brake pedals I have a F-1 pedals and F-1 center crossmember My plan is to use the F-1 pedals in the F-1 crossmember Questions: Are there any problems inherent in this plan? Any suggestions regarding issues I'll run into? I can use an F-1 master cylinder but is there an upgrade I should consider? Note 1 - none of the threads I've found/read really addressed these issues. Note 2 - I've included much peripheral information just in case it might matter. Note 3 - I've put about a zillion miles on Clarence with an original MC but recently changed it out for a dual chamber MC. I'm not opposed to using F-1 MC but wouldn't mind an upgrade. fwiw: I also have pedals from larger F series trucks (F-2 - F-6) but see no advantage in using them.
I would just upgrade the MC to a dual chamber and call it good. Packaging in a Tudor is tight around the footwell. Make sure you get it all mocked up to fit you. What steering column setup are you using?
Is there a MC with the same bolt pattern/spacing as the F-1? Right now I have a Ford pickup column; probably 70's. It's a non-tilt, no key, and no shifter column. Very small sleek column with only the turn signal stalk protruding. It has been shortened and it might be too short. None-the-less, I plan to use it or a similar column that has no key/shifter.
If you are using F1 brakes, the original master cylinder will do just fine. If your truck has Bendix brakes they are self centering / self actuating and I can't see any advantage to a dual cylinder. The Bendix brakes will handle anything you're likely to need. If using '40 style brakes, setup and adjustment are more critical in order to get the most out of them. Again, the original master cylinder is fine. Be sure your drums are in spec and shoes fit to the drums no matter which way you go. If you want power brakes, go the easy way and install a HydroVac remote booster. You can mount that anywhere you please.
Thanx Glenn. The PO had never installed front brakes. It's an aftermarket tube axle with Ford spindles. I believe that his intention was to install disc brakes, but I'm looking into something else; perhaps F-1 as I have a set of those. Or ??? I drove Clarence (avatar) for nearly 50 years with stock MC. 20 years original brakes and 30 years with front discs/rear drums. Had the requisite proportioning and residual pressure valves. Worked all those years in a 3,400 pound panel truck. Surely it'll work in a sedan weighing several hundred pounds less. I'm still not opposed to the safety margin of a dual MC though.
You can make an adaptor OR ECI sells the EC-410 Others offer them as well And ONLY USE the Br*** ECI Residual valves. The anodized aluminum ones are junk
Thanx Trent. I was ***uming I would have to fab my own adapter. This looks like money well spent. Even though my time is free my skillset isn't up to par with most of you guys.
In past reads @1oldtimer purchased 2 F1 pedal ***emblies. One early one later and bolt spread was different on each. So we’ll need your measurement and or year.
Sorry found the post. It was F1 vs F2. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/pedals-question.1267205/#post-14520830
Roadster supply sells a master that has the 60s mustang internal with the early ford mounting pattern eliminating the need for an adapter. pretty slick. https://www.roadstersupply.com/Dual-Reservoir-3-Bolt-Master-Cylinder-p/rsc-55141.htm
Hi, Mike... I had a great connection, brought home 2 F1 cross members, pedals, other stuff. Pedals seem 'taller' than '39s, so watch for that. The new m'cyl. that @Nailhead Jason showed is great. Never imagined that casting...Just amazing!
I was thinking about the 3-bold MC, but a wise person suggested just using the adapter as the mustang unit could be purchased at most any auto parts store...should the 3-bolt unit take a **** in Podunksville!
What brakes and rear are you planning on running. I would recommend F1 or F100 but you need backing plates out (if you want drum) at least, I would also recommend a stock Ford I beam axle that has been dropped....tube axles don't like twisting. Also with the 401 in there what steering are you thinking of?. I would also run an adapter for the new master so you won't have to change later if that company stops making the master. If you click on the link below you can look at my '28 Tudor and laugh at me constantly changing my mind.
That's pretty clever; I like it. Excepting the mounting flange is that identical to a "normal" Mustang MC? If it is I can rebuild a MC 3 states from home; I've done it before. It wouldn't be hard to carry a rebuild kit; OR just buy two MCs at the outset and carry one for a spare. Remember, I've got more storage capacity than just about any other hot rod. Everything being said, the adapter seems to probably be the way to go. The adapter is probably less expensive than a spare MC anyway. The OP, who started this build almost 40 years ago, and got sidetracked shortly thereafter, was planning on doing disc brakes on the front and stock drum brakes on the 9" rear. There are 4-bars on all corners, so the twisting shouldn't be a problem. Also I have (somewhere in my clutter) a complete F-1 setup minus the actual axle. My very good friend owned this car and began the build. As this thing was sitting way back in storage I told him every couple of years that should he ever decide to sell it to please let me have first shot at it. When he found out that he had terminal cancer and a very short time left on Earth he went down to the DMV and changed the ***le to TOD to me upon his death. I didn't know this until after he died and the executor informed me that I needed to come with a trailer and get "my" Model A. I was floored as I had no idea he had done that. All that to say that I'm trying hard to stay with Ed's concept/plan/dream. If I just went and bought a stock Model A and started to build I would do many things differently. BUT... Anyway, there's a Vega box in there with cross steer but it might interfere with the nailhead. I just don't know until I get around to putting pieces in place. The nailhead is at a St. Louis machine shop getting bored right now.
Nailhead bellhousings don't use a fork; they use a shaft in the same manner as a flathead. See this post: Technical - nailhead clutch linkage; anyone got an exploded view? | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)
Good point there. Although we have many folks who think a long drive in their rod or custom is 100 miles one way to an event we have far more members who migh drive that or more just to get a good burger or barbecue and even more who will do 600 mile trips one way for a one day rod trot especially those who live in Texas. It is a good idea to have parts that can fail on the road that can be easily replaced without taking the car all apart be common easy to find parts such as a standard off the self master cylinder that should be in stock in most parts houses. As far as the "use the old single piston mc rather than a dual" arguement. I still remember blowing a wheel cylinder on my 55 Metropolitan rag top on the way from work to lunch when I was 17 and having to find an escape route so as to not hit the car in front of me and narrowly missing it and only leaving a little bit of green paint off my right rear quarter panel on a bumper bolt of a 50 Chevy sitting at the curb. That was 59 years ago but I still remember the panic, I've had a couple others fail over the years and have had wheel cylinders fail on dual master cylinder rigs where I still had almost a half a set of brakes to stop and I'll happily take that half a set over no brakes that a single piston cylinder leaves any time. Either have a dual master cylinder or a seriously high amount of liability insurance.
I have around the same set up. 30 tudor with nailhead and muncie. I'm using a 40 steering column with f1 brakes. When I made my center k member out of 2x4 tube I made one side fit the pedals then other side match a newer dual mc.
Just a heads up, new bushings are available for the pedals, but new shafts are nla. I have a line on a nos shaft, but have made one I will attempt to harden if the nos falls through.
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