F-Head Flathead Conversions - Photos

guess everyone forgot about isky's t roadster--wasn't that a '32engine with an f-head conversion? i seem to remember that he made up custom valve covers for it.

 

Maxi heads

 

This thread is pure gold!

Don't forget the EmiSul V8-60....

 

Nope, 1929 was the start of the "Stovebolt 6". It was supposed to debut in 29 but wasn't ready, which is why the 28 chassis is the same as the 29.

 

WOW! And here I thought I had seen all the different combinations!

Thanks for the trip down (the new) memory lane!

 

I remember when I went to a car show as a small child.. There was a bucket "T" with a hemi. I could not believe a hemi had motor mounts like a flathead. I thought this had to be an easy engine change. I had never heard of an Arden Head. It was about tens years later some mentioned the "Purple People Eater" with an Arden Head flathead.

I never forgot that car and that engine.

 

Hot rodded Willys F-134 Ported head, block custom reground cam, Pertronix dizzy and a Weber carb

 

F head seems like a pointless compromise, neither one thing nor the other, but were used by some car makers famous for their engineering savvy.

One advantage they had, in the days of small bore long stroke engines, was that the valves were practically unlimited in size (unlike an OHV engine) without limiting compression (unlike a flathead).

There was one other F head that deserves an honorable mention, the 1927 -29 Hudson Super Six. In its day it was one of the hottest performing cars on the road.

http://www.phelpsclan.com/Hudson/engine.html

The first Excalibur sports car was a special body designed by Brooks Stevens on a Willys sedan chassis. The engine was the Willys F head 161 cu in six, hopped up. Stevens got 6500 RPM out of the little engine in the early fifties, which astonished even its designer. The head of Willys engineering said "that's impossible - you'll blow the engine right through the hood". But they never did.

Later Stevens used the same name for a mock Mercedes SS on a Studebaker chassis, which he designed at Studebaker's request. They only wanted something to draw attention at car shows but it proved so popular Brooks' son put it into production.

 

Thanks Weasel!

 

You couldn't find any pics of an original Crawford? You show one! The Crawford is not an old head, and very few are in existence because few were made. Contact Donovan Engineering for more info. Rich Fox is right about no flathead Chevy's.

 

I can't really argue too much with that. It's definitely not the most ingenious design, as it still limits airflow. It did help a lot to improve valve size, since the intake could be widened in the head and the exhaust could be opened way up without compromising the intake valve.

That being said, there was a lot of early technology that we look back on now and see as ridiculous and inefficient- and that does not make it any less cool or interesting! Sometimes the ideas people came up with that didn't work are a lot more interesting than the ones that did.

 

When long stroke small bore motors were in vogue, the F head must have seemed like a way around the deficiencies of the typical OHV and flathead designs. Well regarded car makers like Rolls Royce, Bentley, Rover, Willys and Hudson didn't use it for nothing.

 

all i can say is the juices are flowing!!! luv it!

 

I can say this thread has some really interesting engines to look at.

 

my 27 harley JD is an F head and i wish it was a JDH which was a 4 valve per cyl. F head.i hear they later reverted back to the flathead because of the simplicity/reliability during the war years.

 

So, what can be done to my Willys F head engine? I'm sure one has made it to the salt at one time or another.
Anybody know of any speed equipment available, modifications made etc. I just might want to play with it.

 

According to the website, the new Roof head for the bangers puts out 94.30HP straight out of the box! That's a pretty darn good improvement.

http://www.secretsofspeed.com/ROOF.htm

 

I have never seen a Willys F head running on the salt. You could mill off the intake side and make a two carb plate like the six cylinder Willys engines shown. Other wise it's an engine. It takes to the same things any other engine would. If you really wanted to run one at Bonneville You might think about a destroker to get it down to 122 cid and into G class. otherwise your a pretty long way away from the 183 inch limit in F. The engine did come out before '59 so you could make a case for running in XO. But they have a 325 inch limit

 

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Madis F-Head Conversion for Ford Flathead 6, Then & Now.

 

RichFox thanks for the input. I think the only way to run it at the salt is to de-stroke it, as you say, and run in G. This is at the "bench racing" stage so a lot of homework to do to see if it's do-able.
I always like trying something that may have not been done before.

 

Wow, I was reading that article in the March 1951 Hot Rod Magazine just last night!! Creepy ...
Anyway, I was reading it in an effort to learn more about Madis and some of the other parts he made.
Also, I was trying to find out where the heck the dry sump oil pump goes on that engine! The pump is shown in the article by itself, but never attached to the engine. (Yes, I know the story between Madis and the owner of the engine regarding that darned oil pump). Did you happen to get any pictures of where it would have bolted to?

 

Jimmy, thanks for the pages/picks on the Madis conversion. They are now loaded onto the hard drive for future reference.

-moe


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I was completely blown away several yrs back to find a friend with a 55 Rolls Royce, had a 6 Banger with a F head. Still do not understand that one. And yes it was factory. Iceman

 

Note the ad for the Pierson Bros, '34 on the third page. I guess Tom Bryant bought it.

 

I've been on a big Madis kick lately as the result of some recently acquired parts.

This is what I found interesting about the article and the pics: The engine is the article is obviously an H Series engine, with the distributor on the side and flat timing cover. The dry sump pump is shown in the article, but if you look in the pictures, there no mounting location made for it and it is therefore not shown on the complete engine. Madis made dry sump systems for the G Series engines in racing boats into the 1950s. With those, he made a finned dry sump pan and a pump that mounted to the earlier timing cover- sandwiched between the cover and distributor. In the new pictures of the engine, you can see it has the G series oil pan (note the misalignment at the front right). Also, attached to the timing cover is what looking like an angle drive for a Wico, even though there is an early Mallory in the stock location.

Any input? Or, anybody know where else I can find info on Madis Engineering?

 

Here's a spec. sheet of the reproduction DIXON head and some color photos.

 

Can anybody give me any specific information or links to information on the Sparks conversion for flatheads? I've been looking for something to show to provide some answers about it because @RichFox and another guy have been having a discussion on my Vintage Engines and Parts Facebook page.

 

I'm for that.

 

Rover made a 2.6 litre 6 with Westlake designed F head for NADA (North American Dollar Area). This was used in some 109 wheelbase 5 door Land Rovers starting in 62.

 

The Alexander F head and the Smith Jiggler (not Jitterbug) put the exhaust valves over head to try to cure the nemesis of overheating in both the the V8-60 and the 85 due to the stock exhaust porting's long route around the cylinder in the water jacket to get to the outside of the block.

Others like Riley, left exhaust in the block and put the larger single or two valve intakes in the head to promote breathing. From the widely successful Banger Riley's this was the way to go.

The Jiggler, contrary to some over enthusiastic articles and advertising, I don't believe was very successful. With no water cooling in the head, the overheating problem it was made to cure, might well have turned into an exhaust valve burning problem.