my dad has plans to build one from a 65 comet. my questoin is what front axle will he want to use? i have a 58 100 that i will probly put IFS in so that axle will be sitting in the garage.. would it work for him? thanks jeff
An AFX (factory experimental) Comet would have a cranked up stock type independant front suspension with extended A arms and such. A beam axle would put the car more into the gasser style. The track width of a '58 F 100 axle may be a little too wide for a Comet. Might look kinda funny.
I think in '64 they used modified stock suspension, but later, as wheelbase was altered they went to straight axles. Here is a page with Dodge/Plymouth AFX and SFX cars, a few Fords and gassers as well. http://samson-power.com/65afx/photo.htm Here is Dyno Don's 64 Comet. Looks fairly stock suspension and wheelbase. Ronnie Sox campaigned one as well, but I can't find a picture. http://www.slixx.com/7045.htm I couldn't find much on the '65 altered wheelbase Falcons, but this model kit of Phil Bonners car looks like an early Ford dropped axle with buggy spring, hair pins, and flipped steering arms. Don't know how accurate that is. http://homepage.mac.com/ssven5/Sites/Svensworldofwheels/images/65falcon/65falcon_page.html
wow thanks for all the info. those photos rule.. we are definitly using an axle, not ifs. so would guys have used stock axles from trucks like my 58 f100.. (asuming its not too wide) or was it mostly tube axles? thanks again for the replys. -jeff
big time guys like chrisman probably would have been using a chrome moly setup ....but then again ....he was sorta above most running that style car.....running on fuel.....i like the looks of a tube axle with hairpins on those style cars....just has a racy look ....but thats just me.....brandon
Sure, guys used stock axles along with the tube axles. Econoline axles were very popular. Just check the width. Keep us up to date with photos!!!
I think there is a difference between Altered Wheelbase cars and F/X. Some were and some were not altered. The AW cars became " Funny Cars" . There also was several F/X categorys. The small block Comets/Fairlanes were usually B/FX and did not have altered wheelbases. Then you also had 4 sanctioning bodies then for Drag Racing...Nascar,AHRA,NHRA and I think USDA all using different classes such as F/x Ultra Stock, etc. Pretty confusing nowa days
Something to think about,if you are going to move the front wheels ahead, something like 10 inches,you will need to use a single trasverse spring because a dual spring will have to stick out to far past the front frame horns.
It really does seem to confuse a lot of people. NHRA F/X classes did not allow those radically altered wheelbase modifications, yet so many folks call altered wheelbase cars A/FXers. I believe that one reason for the confusion is that many actual F/X cars had been quickly converted to AWBs. Many racers never bothered to remove the painted on F/X lettering from their cars. The F/X classes were deleted in 1966 while at the same time the XS (Funny Car) classes were instituted. I think that the F/X and S/XS designations also serve to confuse many. A/FX cars were not Altered Wheelbase cars! 6bbl
Current build of a "altered wheelbase" '64 Comet. Best of luck with your project. It'll be worth all your hard work when finished!! Dale http://public.fotki.com/teddisnoke/the-rosedale-rocket/
Hey 6bblbird! I just want to talk about the comment that "A/FX cars were not AWB's" since it is not entirely correct. In the summer of 1964 the NHRA did approve wheelbase alterations for the FX class based on 2 Plymouths and 2 Dodges that were presented to them by Chrysler -- the "2%" factory-built cars. According to Mopar history, Chrysler had four cars prepared by Alexander Brothers in Detroit in the summer of 1964. The front axle location was moved foward 3", and the rear axle was moved forward 4". For the uninitiated, this was done to improve weight transfer -- moving the wheels forward in effect moves the engine farther back and improves traction. Other than the wheelbase alterations, these four cars were identical to the standard lightweight 1964 Super Stock sedans with plexiglass windows, stripped interiors and aluminum front ends. Hemi's were installed before these first AWB's were delivered to the Ramchargers and Dave Strickler (Dodges) and Tommy Grove and Al Eckstrand (Plymouths). These were arguably the first "Funny Cars". Standing alone, the wheelbase mods on these units were difficult to spot. But there was no denying the difference when parked next to a stock wheelbase car. NHRA promptly approved the changes and classified these AWB cars as A/FX; AHRA likewise approved and put them in Experimental Stock. After both organizations approved the four factory cars, many other drivers converted their cars to the 2% AWB configuration (I think Dick Landy was one of the first) and successfully campaigned them in A/FX. The 2% wheelbase modification was also legal for the 1965 NHRA season and the factory again built '65 cars specifically for A/FX. The A-990's owned the Super Stock class. But when Chrysler showed the NHRA their "new" wheelbase alterations in 1965 -- front moved up 10", rear moved up 15" -- NHRA said no way for FX and classified them as Altereds. I think these are the cars you were referring to about not being A/FX cars. All of the sanctioning bodies at the time with all of their class designations did make stuff this very confusing. You'll see photos of cars with their painted designations taped over and another class shoe-polished in its place. Or they would be classified by weight! Remember the M/B class? That was an NHRA designation given to the radical AWB match race cars so they could compete together instead of racing dragsters. It stands for "Match Bash" and was first used at the Spring Nationals at Bristol in 1965! 1966 introduced the first "official" NHRA funny car class --XS. Sorry to be so long-winded on this subject, but AWB's are very dear to my heart. I was lucky enough to see them run "back in the day", and the crowds absolutely loved them! I just wanted to set the record straight regarding the "A/FX AWB's" and the NHRA. P.S. Yes, I know my AWB Nova would never have run as an A/FXer back then, even though it's shoe-polished on the windshield! Maybe S/SX, or SS/X, or A/XS, or U/S, or B/A, or M/B or just the "3000 lb." class? Take your pick!
Guys, let's be careful here. A good number of knowledgeable people seem to agree that the 2% Chrysler cars were originally built as the final incarnation of the Max Wedge progression and were converted to Hemis later on (with the modified shock towers coming later after they figured out that the Hemi passenger side valve cover would not come off while the engine was in the car in the pits). Yep, the '64 2% cars were technically "altered" by definition, but were still NHRA legal and were not by any means radical for the time, nor were they the first cars that had "adjusted" wheelbases that bent the rules. Then again, even the regular 1965 S/S cars were technically "altered" by definition because the Dodges had shorter wheelbases than the production non-Hemi cars in '65 because they were built with Plymouth springs. The whole "funny car" thing seems to be a grey area that is not positively defined, but I absolutely agree with the sentiment that the term originated from the 10/15 cars. Agreed with a number of people here that the 10/15 cars were *INTENDED* for A/FX but never were actually legal for it. I am not aware of Landy's '64 Hemi car ever bieng of the 2% configuration? It began as a standard Hemi aluminum nose car and he swapped in an axle and moved the wheelbase around, something like 6inches front and 8inches rear. His car was entirley different than the factory 2% cars, both in how much it was moved and the fact that it wasn't a "factory" done conversion. I don't think Landy's 64 was ever actually legal for A/FX with the axle and wheelbase modifications? And why put A/FX on a Nova that you know would never have actually ran as one? There was classes it could have run in outside of NHRA, why not shoepolish one of those on the windshield instead?
Well written, but I don't think we have to be careful about anything! Seems like we all pretty much agree on the origins of the "AWB's" - the questions are always "what class did they run?" And that's for another story! You're correct about the 2% cars and about Landy's '64. I meant that Landy was one of the first to convert his car to AWB after he saw the 2%'ers. You bet he went 6"/8" and could rightly be considered the first funny car, although the 2%'ers were off-kilter back then to the trained eye. I couldn't tell the difference (I was 16) - and I don't even think I knew what the "2%'ers" were back then! He's something I'd like to share. In the summer of 1965, I heard that the REAL "Funny Cars" were coming to Cecil County for a big meet (Cars or Super Stock Mag). That's when I had my first indoctrination as to what a REAL "Funny Car" was! Here's a link to some photos I took at Cecil County back then. There are some S/S and A/FX mixed in. The "Funnys" ran by weight, and maybe induction. Step back in time: http://www.alteredwheelbasenova.com/my_cecil_county_photos_-_august_1965 And, as to the closing comment about my shoe-polished class designation -- problem solved! Funny Cars Forever!
Very good Storm Warning! Thanx for posting the pics link! There was a pretty good number of AHRA classes that the cars were welcomed to run in. Here is 1 example. NASCAR stuff. Everybody seems to forget about it.
________________________________________________________________ I'd use the axle myself.....If it is too wide, take it to a good welder, have him narrow it to the width you need.........good luck.....enjoy your project
Dear God, not everybody was jacking the fronts to the moon! Most of the cars sat fairly level, high by today's standards for sure. What confuses many folks is that the front suspension was allowed to raise quickly upon acceleration (that's what 90/10 drag shocks were all about). A lot of old photos of the cars leaving the line show the front ends way up in the air; but that's because they are moving, and trying to transfer the weight. (It really didn't work like they planned, BTW).
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