28 Oakland is correct also with his statment-"Get them both working, it won't be any harder than trying to fake it" What manifold do you have? Holley fuel bowls are to big and hit each other on small block manifolds. Have fun,Smokey
Fake is fake, run them progressive if the manifold will allow it, the Edlebrock set up they have now is a good choice.
No, fake is not trad. Guys didn't have fake stuff to choose from back in the day. The spotlights that went on were real, wired up and worked. Lakers were hooked up and operative. Most times the full length laker exhaust - as vs the full length cutout lakers - were hooked up. The exhaust hookup wasn't done all the way to the front, a pipe off the muffler would go over to the lakes pipe about 2' - 3' in front of the rear of the lakes pipe for exhaust flow and the front of the lakes pipe was blocked off. Multiple carbs were connected and all of them flowed gas/air mixture. Once in a while someone would show up with cutouts that weren't hooked up, dual tailpipes with a single inlet and the like. Things like that were looked down upon and some didn't mind making an acidic comment or two to bystanders and the perpetrator. Hot rods back in the day were all about performance and few who dabbled in them would let a HP increase go by the board by running fake stuff. Customs got strong running engines as well. Run up against the wrong custom - Hemi in a Merc for example - with your mildly built hot rod and you'd be looking at taillights. There were guys who were simply after a nice car. Shoebox coupe with duals, dago'd a touch, nice shiny paint, TJ tuck and roll and that was enough for them. Most of these guys wanted a dependable, good looking car and many of them didn't really know that much about engines, gears, etc. and they tended to stay away from what they thought were overly complicated cars that took a bit of wrenching to keep running. Fake stuff's for posers. That's as kind as I can be. Makes me wonder though, nothing wrong with a nice car as outlined above, but tack a bunch of fake crap on it and guys like me, today as well as a few yesterdays ago wonder, "why bother?" I always find it a little sad when a car that looks like it has a serious engine gets outrun by the little ol lady in a white 4 door econobox....
Yes I have the full set up. It's an older intake and I have decided to try and run progressive linkage and try the dual fours.
You guys are welcome to correct me on my math, as it's early, and I'm pissed because I'm at work on a Sunday, but... 350cid per revolution 6,000 revolutions per minute 350cid=0.2025cu.ft. 6,000rpm's X 0.2025 cu.ft. = 1215 CFM/4(four-stoke factor) = 303.75 CFM maximum carburation at 6,000 RPM's.... So why even put a fuckin' 750 CFM on one?? Because we can. Besides, you'll never use ALL of your carbs ALL the time. It's a progressive thing. Put the 550's on there, setup the linkage, and forget about it. I'm running a 3x2 setup on my Dodge w/ 2GC's, and there's not gonna be this "fake carb" bullshit on mine. If I don't need it, it's not going on. Also runnin' a 2x2 setup w/ old 2bbl Carters on my Pontiac L8. Use 'em or lose 'em.
If I recall, the 340 6 pack intake setup was rated somewhere around 1100 cfm. A factory 340 HP only needs about 400-500 cfm by the math. Point being that what "works" in the real world always doesn't make sense on paper. I ran a dyno for years and was always laughed at how the numbers after a pull would leave our engineers scratching their collective heads. The nice thing about vac secondary carbs is you canset them up so the secondaries only give what the engine needs. The first engine (360) I had in my Dart was fairly mild but I ran 2 - 600 cfm holleys. I kept really stiff springs in the secondaries and it worked great. The current engine (a hotter 360) allowed me to loosen the secondaries up. When the 340 I have is finally together and in the car I am sure i will loosen the secondaries up even more. You should be able to make it work just fine Casepower. You'll just have to spend some time tuning and adjusting it. But I know you already expected that!
Back when the concept was fairly new, a lot of hotrodders ran dual quad set-ups on the street with little or no problem;...including me! If it's set up well, it'll work! I've been running a tri-powered 327 forever without a lotta maintainence. These multi-carb set-ups have been around a long time! CFM & fuel pressure are both very important. My 2 cents worth. Still shootin' for that 800th post!
Here is a shot of the setup in my Dart. I know it is a hotter engine that you are going to run, but thought I would share it anyway.
350/3456=.10127x80%=.08101x6000=486 cu.in/3456xVExmaxrpm= needed cfm VE being Volumetric Efficiency. I think 80-85% is the standard assumption on a street engine. Sorry about having to work on Sunday. At least you are on the HAMB!
if yer talkin late 40s early 50s,yeah,they were real,but try to find a car built from the mid to late 50s with REAL spots.barris even said some stuff they had tried to get away with wasnt allowed.they didnt even want them to stick dummy headlights on them for the quad look!i thought it was a rumor that most customizers went to dummy spots cuz only police cars were allowed to have functioning spots?if you dont think they had plenty of fake shit "back in the day",open up an old mag and check out how much "speed equipment" JC Whitney sold back in the day..sure a Y adapter LOOKS like you're runnin more carbs,but yer not really doin more than you would with a single 2!just LOOKS cooler! creepy
if memory serves me right, your math is a little off. i dont think you divide by 4 as a four stroke factor, as that assumes intake and exhaust. i believe you only divide by two, as you're trying to calculate intake volume needed. here's how i do it: CID x RPM / 3456 x VE% = CFM CID = cubic inches of motor RPM = revolutions per minute 3456 = aligns inches to feet and stroke factors (easy # to remember) VE% = volumetric efficiency (usually 80-100%.. However, will go above 100% with forced induction-- turbo or supercharged.) Thus, 350CID x 6000rpm / 3456 X 100%VE = 607cfm Like you said, i like to run bigger too-- because i can Going off of memory here (I used to work in a race shop,) but i think thats the way to do it.... -scott noteboom
There may have been "fake" stuff available back in the day, but what we saw at Pep Boys - the place for bolt-on stuff - were portholes and the like that few hot rodders used. Not too much of this stuff was seen on cars in my SoCal coastal town. Operable spotlights were allowed on cars other than police vehicles. The vehicle code book stated you couldn't use them when driving. What was outlawed - and still is I believe - were Blue Dots. That because police motorcycles had a blue light on the rear and the argument was they didn't want a civilian car confused with a police bike. A Y'd intake doesn't quite fall into the 'fake' stuff area imo. It was probably made to semi-sorta copy the Edelbrock slingshot manifold for the flatmotors and less than knowledgeable wannabee hot rodders on a budget went for it. Another interesting non-fake accessory was a pair of steel adapters you brazed into your flatmotor intake to give you a three 2 bbl setup. Today, just like the good ol daze, you can use 'fake' stuff. But today, just like the good ol daze, you'll get no respect. No respect at all....
I've run a dual carb-setup with two 625cfm Carter's with a direct linkage. Progressive linkages are for wimps (note the hi-tech linkage) My setup ran like a champ. The (new) Carter/Edelbrocks have a weighted secondary airvalve which will only open with airflow is sufficient, so overcarbing is not easliy done. Here are the 2 Carter's straight out of the box onto the engine. Only thing needed was an idle-settting adjustment on both carbs.
I run both carbs on my mild 355 2 600 edelbrocks were a little much and it would bog on intial punch of the throttle I used the edelbrock calibration kits and leaned them out and they work perfect I have the Mr.Gasket progressive linkage and don't even use it both carbs are set up like a mechanical linkage and run that way with the adjustment taken off the linkage. Don't fake it just run a single 4 barrel then.They aren't that complicated to set up and are a blast when floored and they whistle with velocity stacks on them.
Me too. On the straight linkage anyway. A lot of progressive linkages I see - especially on triple 2 bbls - are cheap pieces of the slippery stuff and one I see fairly often has a piece of bent wire for the slider. Those are a little scary to me. There are some good progressives out there, the Edelbrock looks like a good one. The only changes done to the 500 cfm Carters on my 462" Buick was metering rod springs - due to the big cam. That was at 350' altitude. Idled all day long at 600 rpm. Smooth tip-in on the secondaries as well. I'll have to make some jetting and rod changes to the dual quads when I get the 31 running due to I now live at 3300' altitude. Did that with the single 750 cfm Edelbrock now on the 32 and it runs great here and down at the river where it's about 450' or so altitude. No fake stuff on either of my roadsters. Even the cup holders on the 31 are real....
In my '57 Chevy I have a hot 327 with dual quads and progressive linkage. The linkage is adjustable and is usually set so that around town most of the time only the rear carb opens. For better gas mileage on long, out of town trips, I'll adjust it so that only the rear carb opens. One key point is that no matter how my linkage is adjusted, both carbs are always hooked to fuel and the car always idles on both carbs. With this set up, I've had no trouble.
I run 2 600 edelbrock carbs on a edel. p65 intake on my 65 455 GTO. The progressive linkage is adjusted so that I am running on the rear carb until about 3500 rpm and then the front carb starts to tip in. There is NO problem running on the rear carb only. Remember that on most GM dual plane intakes that the driver side of the intake feeds cylinder # 1-4-6-7 and the passenger side of the intake feeds cylinder # 2-3-5-8 whether it is a 2 or 4 barrel, dual 4, or tripower intake. A single plane intake will change all of this. On my set up both front and rear idle circuits operate as stock so this will make the engine run slightly richer at idle circuit rpm's. As long as you do not use too big of carbs to begin with you should not have a problem. You can always jet the carb down with smaller jets and use different metering rods and is simple to do on an AFB type carb. In 1965 I ran dual quads on a 327 engine in my 57 chevy and would run on the rear carb 80 % of the time with the linkage to the front carb disconnected unless I knew I was going to do some street racing. Never had a problem with that set up either. DO NOT run a single plane dual quad intake on a mild street engine, you WILL have tuning problems!!! I had more problems getting my intake to seal than I did tuning my setup which was nothing more than setting the idle circuits. Hope this helps. Greg
..why the hell WOULD a HOT RODDER use port holes or dummy anything other than maybe a 3x2? i'm talking CUSTOMIZERS and yes, customizers used port holes and dummy stuff and jc whitney stuff.quit trying to argue just to be right.stuff to bolt onto your cars has been around as long as cars have,so no matter when,someone could stick somethin on their car to make it look like somethin it's not..a good example could be trim purchased NOS from a dealer..is that REALLY a bel air? is that REALLY an SS? creepy
C9 arguing? were you alive "back in the 50's bro?" ... keep using gimmicks sucka. barris wants to rub "FUZZY DICE" with you... JUST LIKE THE 50's... hahaha
ok,this is my last post in the shit-flinging thread.no,i wasnt alive in the 50s.gee,i guess that means i cant read magazines that came out then.geez,some people.fake was fake then,but i'm just sayin you cant say it wasnt THERE!never said it was "cool then so it's cool now" creepy
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