fe engines dont weigh a lot more than a small block chevy. change the massive cast iron intake for an aluminum one and they weigh about the same. great engines. they are strong and run forever. a 390 ford is every bit as versitile as an sbc. it can do anything you want it to do on a pretty reasonable budget. i got a 406 fe engine that came out of a customers galaxie. I plan to use it in a rod project one day. i never was much of a ford man, but i dig fe motors!
Actually I didn't have to do anything to put the 429 in it. The stock 429 motor mounts bolted right in. All I had to do was slide the cross member back about 3" and drill new bolt holes for the car C6. I had to have the driveshaft cut and a 4WD yolk put on because the cups on the universal joints were two different sizes. I had the factory 429 manifolds on it and had a shop put the exhaust pipes on it running through glass pack mufflers. The stock shift lever hooked up fine. It was a F250 Camper Special with 4:10's. Was a hell of a ride. I ran all over in the mountains of CO in later years when I was pulling a travel trailer. Didn't have 4WD but it would go anywhere out there where it said "4WD only from this point on".. I had 12" tires on the back and 10.5's on the front on 16.5 rims.
I've been told that '67-'68 Mustang 390 headers come pretty close to working in the '56 frame. I've been trying to find an old set to fool around with.
Better go buy another 3-4 of those T-10 trannys. Your gonna need them. The reason Ford designed the Toploader was because the T-10 didn't fair too well in a heavy car and lots of torque. -Bigchief.
I have a good connection with a local performance warehouse. They brought in 8 different type of Header sets I was told would work for my 57 project. One was the Mustang 390 set. Not even close. Clutch linkage interfered and hit the steering box. I've learned that most information on headers that would fit was someones verson of what a Friend told them. Not first hand experiance installing them. From experiance in the past I've also learned it's easier to build from scratch than cut up a set to modify for fit. The Wizzard
I guess that's where I'm headed with this. I'm determined to see how this thing runs with a set of headers on it. Thanks for all the info guys. Bob
If there's an FE in it from the factory in '68 it was a 390. You'll have to run the casting numbers to be more certain on whats sitting in there right now. I'm pretty sure the 352 was gone from the line-up by that time and the 360 wasn't on the books yet. They did, however, commision Dearborn Steel Tube to build a couple F-100-XL's throughout the '60s with 427's in them for the drags. Its been on the HAMB before but for those that missed it..... http://www.f-100xl.com/ Cool eh? -Bigchief.
The 352 disappeared after '67, and the 360 came out in '68. They built them by using 352 rods and 390 4V pistons. I would imagine manufacturing cost was the motivation. In late '67 the 352 rod was updated to a football head rod bolt over the broached style the 352 had and it was used through the rest of 360 production. They have a C7TE part number, the pistons will have 390 4V cast on the pin sides. Oddly, this puts the piston almost 1/8" in the hole, plus the head gasket. Really low CR, some rebuilds with Fel-Pro .041 gaskets are lucky to be 7:1, and the quench is awful. The 390 truck engine used 410 pistons (they will be cast with the 410 on them) that were about the same distance down, for about 8:1. The car 390 2V used a dished piston that was right at zero deck at 9.5:1, or a flat-top with four valve reliefs (just like the 360 piston) for the high compression 390 2V and the 390 4V. Its a shame they didn't put these in trucks, many people judged the FE by the low compression engines in the trucks, and some remans of truck engines ended up in cars. Whew, a real stinker. Something else too, is the external casting numbers don't tell you a lot because they shared them from 352-428. Casting bore cores varied in thickness even with the same part number. A tear down is best. But you can check the stroke using a wooden dowel through a plug hole, and whether its a truck engine by inserting a piece of soft 1/8th" solder in the plug hole bent toward the intake and running it gently through TDC. If it crushes it measure it. If its about .041-.055 its a car engine or a rebuild of one. .075 or so will be a 352. If the solder doesn't dent its a 360/390truck engine. The XL-100 is really neat. I have always loved the "one piece" trucks anyway, and a 427? It doesn't get much better than that!
Here is where I'm at today. Geezzz wish I was getting paid by the Hour to do this. Either this is getting harder or I'm getting a lot slower. 5 of the pipes are within 3/8" and the other 3 pipes are within 3/4" of being the same total length. That's the difficult part. The Wizzard
Any speed secrets for the clutch Z bar? Did you use an FE mount for the engine end? My 6 cyl mount bolts up to the FE but the angle looks like it will be off. (the engine is still on the stand) I can "hot rod" it but if there is a bolt on piece I have time to try and locate one.
I have a 390 with a 428 block. At least thats what Im getting out of the cast numbers. I have a small cam, holley 750 and some minor upgrades but it runs like a champ. I have an exhaust leak (which im hating to change since they have a history of snapping) and if I barley get on it it will chirp second gear. The smell is a smell of a real hot rod, the sound is just purty as well. Also here is the real kicker. Its a Ford engine in a Ford truck, now thats something thats just weird huh. I think they are cool engines and they run like a bastard. Each of their own though but I think the positives out weigh the negatives by a long shot.
My bell crank (Z bar) is a 58 unit. A little different than 57 in that it adjusts from the pedal push rod not the clutch fork rod, easier to get to. As far as I know 57-58-59 bell cranks were all the same no matter what motor. The part that changes from V-8 to 6 cyl is the block bracket. Get a V-8 one and it should all line right up. To verify get ahold of Flat-top-Bob he has the interchange books. The Wizzard
Just a thought, kind of late, but I have some headers that have double length tubes for the front four that went under the suspension. A double length tube tunes to the same Helmholtz resonance it will just be a different octave. The rear four are 2" diameter 28" (which is the tuned primary length) with minimal bends, and the front four are 2" diameter 56" with minimal bends. The collector cone is a 5" taper with a 3 1/2" outlet and I am reducing it at 18" total collector length, then it will be 3" with a X pipe. It 2 1/2" right now after the reducer and it cackles, so when the roller motor goes in I'll be upgrading exhaust to the 3" X. Nice work BTW. I think on a V8 you have them close enough. A 4 cylinder would be more critical. There is a a lot of debate on this, and please take it how you wish, with a grain of salt if you differ, but having the least number of bends is more desirable on a V8 than equal length. If you can tune them to the same resonance by double length the sound wave will clear the way for gas exit the same. But if they are just an unequal length period, shoot for the least number of bends and they will work fine. Just my .02 From Wikipedia "It can be shown[1] that the resonant frequency is given by: \omega_{H} = \sqrt{\gamma\frac{A^2}{m} \frac{P_0}{V_0}} (rad/s) , where: * γ (gamma) is the adiabatic index or ratio of specific heats. This value is usually 1.4 for air and diatomic gases. * A is the cross-sectional area of the neck * m is the mass in the neck * P0 is the static pressure in the cavity * V0 is the static volume of the cavity For cylindrical or rectangular necks, we have A = \frac{V_n}{L} , where: * L is the length of the neck * Vn is the volume of air in the neck thus: \omega_{H} = \sqrt{\gamma\frac{A}{m} \frac{V_n}{L} \frac{P_0}{V_0}} By the definition of density: \frac{V_n}{m} = \frac{1}{\rho} , thus: \omega_{H} = \sqrt{\gamma\frac{P_0}{\rho} \frac{A}{V_0 L}}, and f_H = \frac{\omega_H}{2\pi} , where: * fH is the resonant frequency (Hz) The speed of sound in a gas is given by: v = \sqrt{\gamma\frac{P_0}{\rho}} , thus, the frequency of the resonance is: f_{H} = \frac{v}{2\pi}\sqrt{\frac{A}{V_0L}} The length of the neck appears in the denominator because the inertia of the air in the neck is proportional to the length. The volume of the cavity appears in the denominator because the spring constant of the air in the cavity is inversely proportional to its volume. The area of the neck matters for two reasons. Increasing the area of the neck increases the inertia of the air proportionately, but also decreases the velocity at which the air rushes in and out." Source: http://www.lightandmatter.com/html_books/0sn/ch05/ch05.html#Section5.5
Tommy; I just was thinking maybe you're not aware of all the different combenations of stick shift parts. There are several different Bell housings and though they may bolt to your Block and Trans the clutch fork may not be in the correct position for the linkage. It's important to get correct parts per Year and body style so pushing the Clutch pedal doesn't take both legs. Bell crank and linkage rods need to align correctly or you'll have problems. I had to machine my Front bearing retainer so that the Top Loader would bolt to the correct Bell housing for my combination. The Wizzard
BillBallingerSr; Unfortunatly I do understand the Formula, thanks for point that out. Life was a lot easier when we just wanted the exhaust to go from point A to point B. For some reason now I find myself trying to do the best I can even though its' still just a Damn Car. The Wizzard
[quote="Whitey Ford" 62 Uni;3329155]I have a 390 with a 428 block. At least thats what Im getting out of the cast numbers. I have a small cam, holley 750 and some minor upgrades but it runs like a champ. I have an exhaust leak (which im hating to change since they have a history of snapping) and if I barley get on it it will chirp second gear. The smell is a smell of a real hot rod, the sound is just purty as well. Also here is the real kicker. Its a Ford engine in a Ford truck, now thats something thats just weird huh. I think they are cool engines and they run like a bastard. Each of their own though but I think the positives out weigh the negatives by a long shot.[/quote] The 428 block has thicker bore cores, but shares the same casting number as the small bore core 360/390 block. The 428 has a raised A or a C on the back of the block that was scratched into the sand mold before casting, it looks like it was welded on there. This is the only external way to determine a thick bore short of a sonic check, but doesn't account for core shift. If you need to bore it over 4.13 have it sonic checked. I have a 390 block with the "428 casting number" with no markings on the back that I bored .060 over and later sonic checked and it is barely usable (a couple of spots as thin as .086) as a .060 over 390 as a 4.11 bore, much less a 4.13 bore. If I had known it was that thin I would have just gone .030 over and got some different pistons. It will work for strip duty, but I will have to hard block it and re-hone it.
I don't have any doubt that what you have there will work just fine. If you measure a lot of headers,they damn sure aren't that close. Run a little bit of collector extension before reducing and making the first turn and it will be fine. You would need a tuning fork to find any variance at the exit, and thats getting kinda crazy for "just a Damn Car."
Used one several years ago in a Pro Street '31 Ford Tudor Sedan that I built. It was a '63 vintage engine with "better breathing" 406 quenched chamber cylinder heads. I also ran an X66 Edelbrock cross ram with a pair of 600 Holleys. . .always was going to put 390 cfm Holleys on it, but it ran so good with the bigger carbs and was fairly docile on the street. See more pics in my albums.
Yeah.....I'm plenty familiar with FE's and all their quirks. We do plenty of them. I just had a brain-fart when the 360 actually came into play. Thanks for the refresher. -Bigchief.
You are welcome. If you ever have an FE question, like a parts ID, we have forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/ Your experience and knowledge would be an asset over there, I've been over there since the late '90's on the old "Wild West Forum." We have a few "characters" (I'm one of them ) but there is a lot of knowledge there, you would fit right in. It is an excellent resource, a lot of Cammers, and the new stoker and BT head and intake stuff is coming along. Chuck Brandt who is keeping up with the XL100 project posts over there, as well as Mark Artis, Dan Bell, Blair Patrick, and a lot of famous Stock and Super Stock guys from the '60's who run NSS today. A lot of interest in a 50 year old engine, you can build one completely aftermarket these days 500+ ci to make some great hp, or build them cheap for a great cruiser from mostly stock parts. Barry Rabotnick formerly of Federal Mogul owns a company called Survival Motorsports has finished strong in Engine Masters with an FE every year since 2005 and has parts galore. Its a great time to be into FEs.
Yeah, I know all about the t10's and a lot of torque. I have been told to forget about the sturdier top loader trannys too. A few FE racers I know told me to just put a Jerico in the Galaxie and forget about tranny problems. Have you seen the PRICE on those!!!!Even a good used unit is expensive!!! I guess when you need the best you have to pay for it. The way this project is going I'm gonna need Bill Gates to adopt me so I can have the bucks to finish it.
The Jalopy Journal
