Projects FED with killer Flathead

Great vids and pics Kjell,, Tim & Beth

 

Look that belt

 

especially at the 2.25 mark!!

 

Yes Dick, the belt was a little too slack on that run. We really don't wanna tighten it too much, trying to save the crank abit

/K

............................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Yes Carl Looks good, allmost had the other guy With the Chevrolet engine or something But lost two beers on a bet that run

/K

.....................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Yes Carl Looks good, allmost had the other guy With the Chevrolet engine or something But lost two beers on a bet that run

/K

.....................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Two Norwegian beers whent to Germany//

/K

........................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Well, finally back on track Roger has reinforced the snout and fixed the shaft. At the same time we made a blower belt guard. The Tech guy gave us a written warning
New ETC limiter har arrived, so I think i will be more consistent?

/K

...............................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Looking Good Kjell,, Remember the faster you go the more the tech guys look at it,,, Tim Jones

 

Well. this weekend was Perfect, when it came to great People, very Nice weather, Perfect track. First pass whent Down OK, PB 9.79 sec ET, but had a issue With the shift-light not working. So i his the limiter pefore shifting, and I think I lost some speed here We tested the shiftlight With the modul selector and it worked. So back inn With the 6K ship. It also ran fat, so leaned out the main a tad. Ready for next round, whent out, still no shift light, but held the pedal Down, passing 1320, in a 9.8 sec ET again. BUT at 1320 smoke at the left bank popped out, NOOOO;(
Back in the pits, pulling the sparkpluggs... Looks like a blown head gasket. Pulled the head, gasket OK, but the Block is not OK;( The cylinder wall on number 8 had caved out...;( ..... No more racing this year and.......?;(

/K

.........................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Here is a Picture of the damage;( several have looked at the parts, and it looks to have been a crack there before;/


/K

.........................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Sorry to see that Kjell , you guys were really getting the car figured out,,,, we filled our block thats in the car right now because of some block problems None that bad tho, Tim Jones

 

Damn kjell that sucks just filler up with some jb weld and file it down it'll be alright lmao this is the first time I have seen your thread I'll go back and read through it though I'm sure your block has been worked over but at least maybe you can just replace the block and not have to replace everything by the way how much boost you running Also keep an eye out for the build thread on the flatcad dragster cause I'm gonna get back on that thing in the next few weeks and make a bunch of progress on it


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

Yes Randy I'm a little down at the moment, but if I look on the bright side, this might help us.
The plan is to sleeve all 8 cylinders with 0.125 thick sleeves. And fill the block up with either epoxy or block-rock. This will solve a lot of week links, cylinders will be better, no more leaking studs, can open up the exhaust and intake ports even more, also supporting the lower end even more Then we can lower the CR even more, for higher cylinder pressure. MORE POWER
The cracked parts have been investigated by my NDT controller, an he says that it's due to an old crack;
The blower is set up for 52% OD. Pressure gauge with memory valve show 20 psi
I follow the Flatcad dragster and the Flatcad Racing team(My heroes) Hope to get back to the US soon, B.ville or Joplin My second home is in NW Arkansas

/K

.........................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Kjell:
I'm probably not telling you any thing you don't already know but in my own sad experience wet sleeves will cut the deck loose (bad). Filling block with something solid (good) for all the reasons you mentioned. Be sure to use flanged sleeves. Even with the block filled you will want to secure the deck so it won't lift. I have known some to run the center deck bolts ,where possible, all the way to the bottom of the water jacket and into the crank case. I believe the French block has a much heaver deck so that lifting may not be as much of a problem.
Keep on pushin

 

Thanks Roy Just a question, with a flange sleeve, wouldn't the flange take to much space, and interfere with the studs? My machine shop, is gone use Darton Sleeves. They fill first wanna bore the block out to see how much is left for the sleeve. After looking at the inboard video, we see that the rev. limiter activates before 6000 rpms, although it's set for 6500!?:/



/K

..............................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

K
The serious problem I had was leakage in the area between the bore and the combustion chamber. As soon as the temperature went up (about 2 minutes) that area opened up and combustion gases began escaping. My engine had been bored for a .125 wall 3.375 bore sleeve. There was very little, if any, of the original casting left, thus disconnecting the deck from the block.(the block was an 8BA, I understand some earlier blocks have thicker walls) So now I had an an engine with a deck that would bow out and separate from the bore and leaked badly. My heart was broken and I eventually discarded the block. I believe that both Rick Schnell and Skot Ingram have filled their blocks with aluminum (at least half way) which allows them to extend some of the bolt holes around the bore deep into the aluminum to really secure the deck and head against high combustion chamber pressures. Ford flathead decks a very thin compared to Cad fatheads and most modern engines. The flange on the sleeves can be relieved around the bolt holes that are close to the bore. This problem of sealing the combustion chamber under high pressure is unique to the old ford and has to be dealt with in some way if your going to make a lot of HP. One possible (maybe) solution to saving the block that I had (if epoxy glue had not been used around the bore) would have been to heat the block in an oven and silver solder around the bore to seal it, which I though would be an iffy deal at best. Good luck on this build. (I hope I don't get in trouble for possibly leaking secrets)
Roy

 

Thanks for the secrets Roy Just a question, with the leaking problem you had, hadn't a totally filled block solved the problem? As you probably know, I have filled the lower part with special epoxy. Now should I use that to fill it to the top, or use block-rock or similar? The issue with epoxy is that it does not like to much heat. And as we all know, exhaust ports are in the the Flathead;/
As you say, we need to go slow ahead to see what kind of solution we end up with. Maybe it's best just to put in a sleeve in the damage cylinder? According to the forum's the deck on the French is thicker than on the US version.
But we are not sure!?, some experts have said that the French could be bored as much as 3 7/16!!? NOT when you go supercharged!
Although the mishap, we still got some nice shots



/K

..................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

/K
I was a bit concerned when you said that you were going to or had used epoxy in the block. I'm glad to hear that it's in the bottom. I'm not sure how those guys were able to put aluminum in the blocks but it must be tricky and expensive. Block Rock may be you solution if it is ridged enough to drill & tap and if it will hold against any escaping gasses. ( so many questions-where's the answers?) If you tried to talk to Skot (he is here on the hamb), he is a great guy and I'm sure he will talk to you about how he filled his block etc.. He had a bad accident recently and is out of racing this year. Sleeveing that one cylinder could be an option if you have a really good welder or some one who can handle muggy weld (investigate this stuff). It would eliminate the problem of separating the deck from the bores. Remember, there are many types of epoxy out there, some of them with standing 1000 deg F or more. However all of this has big $ attached to it. If I'm right yours is an alcohol car (+nitro?) and temps should be considerably lower that running gasoline. Also having the inside of the exhaust ports thermal coated would be advantageous.
An added note the flange on the sleeve does not have to be much more than .06 wide.
I don't want to scare you to bad but I have seen engines running really high cylinder pressures lift the deck clear off of the block It's really important (on the Ford) to secure it as well possible. It's a pain to start a knew block, but a French block with a 3 3/8 bore may be the safe, less expensive, solution. I guess the real trick to this is to it get fixed and have enough money left to buy fuel!!!!
Good luck
Roy
PS my motor is a mildly supercharged street motor and needs coolant.

 

Thanks alot Roy for the heads up. I will for sure take it to consideration. The Block is a French one, and we hoped that it would have taken the abuse I gave it, but noo. So now we know what to expect from these kind of Blocks;/
According to my machine shop, the kind of block-rock they use is both rigid and sealing, hope so. The reason that i choose epoxy last time, was that it glued better, and are 10 times harder than concrete. The manufactor stated that it would soften a little at high temperature, approx 160 farenheit. But when we pulled the head right after the last run, I tried to tap it With a long screwdriver, and it was still hard as glass The problem would be around the exhaust ports/runners. What brand/type of insulating coating is used?
Oh, I just run on streight Alky for now

/K

...........................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

/K
Cermachrome or Black satin work well. Both made by finish line. However this stuff needs curing temp of 500 to 700 deg F.. Plastic in the bottom of you engine may be a problem ,Unless you could pump hot air through the ports. (sounds complicated). Or just paint the Black satin on the ports and let the exhaust cure it. That's what I did but then mine is a street motor and gets hotter for longer period of time. There are other products out there that my do what you want.
Roy

 

Hey Kjell: Wow, now that really sucks! I've never seen a crack like that - looks like a defect in the block to me - not like a blown out cylinder. I would NOT sleeve the whole block - just the one cylinder (weakens it too much).

The bigger problem is how are you going to resolve the whole missing chunk out of the deck surface? We have guys over here like 'Lock n' Stitch' that could put the piece back in without welding - but you may not have the piece and you may not have guys that really know how to do this stuff.

Another option is furnace welding - but unless they are really good, I'd be worried about the block 'moving' around due to the welding/heating operations. Usually all machine operations are done AFTER welding. I would check and see if you have any places that specialize in block repair -- maybe diesel engine places, etc.. Once you get the piece put back in, then they can sleeve it.

It may also be possible to have a custom Darton sleeve made that has a big wide flange on the top (then you'd trim it down for the rest of the bore). As you're only running the 1/4 mile and Alky, probably don't need water - so you might be able to 'Hard Block' the whole dang thing. Just to note, normally you do all the hard-block type operations BEFORE you bore/hone - as it can distort the block. You may need to have the bores checked and at least re-honed afterwards. Good luck my friend - crap like this is NO damn fun!

 

Thnanks Dale & Roy I have to the guy who's gone do job, and a special Darton is the plan. Just a question D. When putting in the sleeve, then fill the block. Why do I need to put in the missing pice? I do have them, but wouldn't the filling the gap sole the problem? And as you have said, I will NOT sleeve all eight My son is coming by this evening and we will messure(sonic test) the cylinder wall thickness on all of them, then do a crack test with penetran.
Then we will know if we need to sleeve more then the one As you say D. this must have been a defect on the block. The pices that we took out was rusted on some part of the edges. Guess it might have been a crack there from the start. I did not check it for cracks, as it look soo good, 1991 model an all!?

/K

....................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Hey Kjell: I believe the Darton custom sleeve is the best approach - as you'll NOT need the piece and you're really not worried about water leaks to the deck. Have them preserve as much of the deck thickness as possible - as your studs will be pulling on the original deck - not the sleeve. The cyl wall thickness looked okay - by eyesight. Make sure you test all bores - top, middle, bottom (on all four sides). That is 12 readings per hole! Let me know the results - always wanting to see how certain blocks stack up.

 

Hey Dale and Kjell just wondering if you can put an small layer of block roc on top of your eist fill material and then put Aluminum for the rest of the fill that way you can retap the stud holes around the broken cylinder deeper ???? might be worth a call to the blockroc people.................

 

Lots of solutions to do now Thanks guys
My son tried to messure, but he said that the mic. he used didn't work. He said that the cast finish might be to crude so the soundwaves dissepears. he will check tomorrow if we could get the right kind of microphone. The guy at my machine shop said that they do not rekomend any sleeves less than 3/32" wall thickness. They are the best inthese parts of the country, they mainly do race engines that has small tolerances, eg. 700hp turbo 4-cyl engines (enduro).

/K

..................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

No luck on measuring the cylinders. Anybody know if you need a dual Chrystal Head? Frequency range?
I also looked at the studs around the damage cylinder. They ends in the deck as mentioned here. Made me getting an idea to bore the bottom out below the threads, and bore into the exhaust passage below. Then make threads into the passage and put in longer studs? Does this make sense?

I was also dreaming a little today What about going "all inn" and redesign the intake/exhaust as Dick Landy did on the Flatfire?

/K

.......................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

/K
I know of at least one flat head running 22lbs of pressure that ran all of the studs surrounding the bores that went into the water jacket all the way to the bottom of the block. If extending the stud threads into the casting and into the exhaust port does not block exhaust flow, it sounds like a good idea. You could also run the exhaust ports on either end of the block straight out of the block instead of around the cylinder. That's not a radical as Landy's motor but better than stock and a lot less expensive.

 

Sorry for not posting for some time. Lot have happend the last six month. On the positiv side I finally found the job i was waiting for, now working With engines 24-7
The Sidewinder engine is going to have a New sleeve soon, I hope, the fill the Block and more porting... We aim to het her out spring-time While waiting I got the last issue of Gasoline Magasine......Guess who is on the front cover???

.................................................
Taildragger&fenderless

 

Awesome shot congrats.