Technical First thread, first Flathead. I need help!

First off, I’m new here so if there is a better place for this let me know.

I just brought home a 40 ford. before I tear it apart I’d like to see if I can get it running so I can pick a direction for the project. My question is really simple. How do I turn the engine over by hand? There was no bolt on the fan pulley so I took it off hoping to find one under. Instead I found another pulley and still no bolt. Am I just missing the bolt? There is a wierd looking nut thing with four’ish teach that must engage the putter fan but I’m not seeing a bolt that I can put a socket on and turn. I’m well versed in mechanics just not flat heads. I’d post a photo of the pulley but I have to figure that out next. Computers aren’t really my thing!

Thank you!

 

Here’s a photo of my pulley.

 

Ya, your okay posting here for input. 40 Fords fan bolts direct to the Crankshaft as you said. I have found that the Crank bolt isn't a good place to try to turn any motor is it is stuck. If you must use the Crank end as it seems on any Flathead I have learned to use an old bottom pully that you can install using the Keyway to lock in place then a Pipe Wrench on the sleeve. Another way is to remove the Starter and go to the ring gear with a heavy screwdriver. Better leverage that the end of the Crankshaft.

 

P.S. Welcome to the H.A.M.B.

 

Put it in 3rd gear and rock it back and forth after putting some Marvel Mystery Oil in each spark plug hole.
The longer you let it soak the better.

 

Thanks. Bought some marvel today. Will start soaking. Will need to get tires to try the rocking method. They are mostly flat and won’t hold air. I may take the starter off as my next attempt.

 

Oh and next really dumb question. I’ve never owned a car with shifter on the column. How do I know what gear I’m in or if I’m in neutral?

 

Typacal "H" pattern, Reverse is up and towards you, 1st is straight down, 2nd is up and away and finally 3rd is straight down.
I assume you know that neutral is in the middle of the "H".

R 2
H
1 3

 

Well I always say there is no Dumb question but it did make me laugh just a bit. I assume your on the younger side and so you know I'm post 70. I grew up with column shift everything. By now you must have found Nuteral. At that point you lift the shift lever towards the steering wheel and then pull it towards your lap. Your now in first gear. Reverse is just above first gear. Second gear is from Nuteral you gently push towards the dash and push up and High is towards the dash and all the way into your lap. It's called an H pattern at the shift knob. Hope that makes sense to ya.

 

That's where a hand crank would go.

 

Odds are if you get it unstuck you will be able to get it to run.
Find someone in your area to assist that possibly has some knowledge.
Where are you located, HELP may be closer than you think?
Be sure to keep us posted on your progress as well.

 

Same H pattern as a floor shift. 1st down and towards you, up and away for 2nd, down and away 3rd. Up towards you reverse

 

On my 1940 Flathead the pulley had that exact same snout on it for the crank to engage, but it also had a hex head that was like 1-3/16" as part of it. Here's a pic from Eckler's Catalog:



I must join the others and agree that trying to turn over a stuck engine by the crank pulley is risking damaging the threads on both the nut and the crankshaft. Pulling the heads and soaking cylinders might be where I'd start.

~Peter

 

Remove the spark plugs and squirt Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders and let them soak for a few days.
With the plugs still removed put a socket on that odd looking crank not with claws and turn it clockwise to turn the engine over. Originally, the claws on that nut were used for attaching a hand crank to turn the engine over.

 

I'll just add that the Hand Crank was meant to turn a motor that was "NOT" stuck. It was for tune up and valve work. Take your chances if you want and I'll try not to say I told ya so.

 

That photo helps a lot! It’s so dirty I couldn’t see past the teeth to see it is actually a nut. Is it 1 1/8? I think i read that somewhere? Or a 32mm I read may for which I do have.

I am yong’ish I suppose. Just turned 40. My first cars were chevelles but then when I was 20 I got turned onto vw buses (thus my screen name) and have rebuilt several. Bought/sold close to 40 of em. I’ve also restored a nova in the last few years.

I’m going to try a little soaking and 3rd gear rocking before I pull the heads but that is in my future I’m sure.

I pulled all the plugs. Two of them were very hard to get out and almost seized. Looking into the hole of one of em I see some rust. Ugh oh. Can’t be good. They were the two plugs on the drivers side on each side of the water hose hole.

Good to know on the hand crank. I wondered why there is a hole in the radiator and grille right there and wondered if it was a hand crank thing. Makes sense.

Im super pumped for this car. Been looking a while.

thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

 

I will try other methods and if I use the crank bolt I will be very gentle knowing what y’all have told me. Don’t want to strip it!

 

Just checked, all Flatheads up to 1938 had 1-3/16", starting in 1939, they began transitioning to 1-1/8". So more than likely a thin wall 1-1/8" socket would work for yours.

 

Got any pictures?

 

Here are a few photos. Pretty pumped for it. The only rust I have found is a very small amount in rear apron and a little in the passenger rocker area. From underneath the floors look solid. Very complete car.

 

Cool, the one from the Colorado Auction surfaces! I saw that they had a couple of good early Fords in the sale.

~Peter

 

That one is totally worthless. I will come pick it up from you.

Actually I am jealous. That looks solid! Congrats!

 

Very nice car !!!! welcome to the Hamb

 

Welcome to the H.A.M.B. ! There's a lot of knowledge here, and advice (and smart-assed comments) are freely given. Absorb the advice you get before you jump in and start "fixing" things. Don't hesitate to ask questions.... we've all got to start somewhere. (Speaking of somewhere.... what general area are you located?).
Looks like a damned good start!
Do yourself a huge favor..... Since you are not familiar with '40 Fords, search out and buy factory owner's/operators manuals. Also look for any factory assembly or repair manuals, as well as Motor's Manual that covers 1940. Vendors who deal in Ford restoration parts are a good place to start. You might wind up with a couple hundred $$ invested in your library, but it will be money well spent.
Good luck!
Also search the HAMB for articles about "How to get an engine unstuck", etc. There have been several over the years, and they will probably save you hours of frustration, and possibly avoid some destruction in the name of 'fixing' (we all learn the hard way on that!). Also search postings by "Mart's Garage". He has some good videos about flathead teardown and reassembly. You can also find his stuff on YouTube.
Good luck, and stick around!

 

I hold the carbs open and dump marvels down the throat too...not sure if it helps or not but more times than not if i do that and let em sit a week, do it again and give em a few days, they roll right over. Welcome and badass car! What a cool lookin 40!

 

I always vote to pull the engine apart and have a look.

 

Welcome Busmania.
It took a while, but I just got here too.
I've been helping people unload their "cubic 'junk' gold" for nearly 35 years now and I've learned a few tricks.
SLOPOK is right. First see if it will roll freely in neutral. More than a few times I have found it wasn't the engine that was seized but something else seizing the engine! Then put it in high gear and then reverse and rock it back and forth and listen for clunks and clanks.
CAPROCKFABSHOP is also correct. It's not advised but if you decide to, take an IMPACT socket to a local machine shop and they can turn it down to fit; don't try this with a Chrome Vanadium socket!
PIST-N-BROKE is who I agree with. I made the mistake of using the crank bolt to free up a 264 Nailhead and ended up ruining the crank.
I'd disassemble the engine before I go doing something that could ruin it, SO...

Before you go prying and beating on things, try these steps.

1. The first thing I do on every engine is drop the pan and make sure nothing inside is keeping the engine from turning- like a broken rod that's hung up and welded in place with age and iron oxide. I once found a dipstick lodged in the crank on a 331 Chrysler Hemi, weirder s**t happens all the time- ask any NASA engineer.
2. Pull the distributor (I've found damaged distributors lock an engine up).
3. Pull the manifold and heads so you can see what condition the block and rotating parts are in. No sense in buying all that Mystery oil and killing yourself to get it to turn over if the cylinder walls are pitted or damaged to the point of no repair.
4. Investigate, investigate, investigate! The more you open the engine, the more you can see. The more you can see, the better decision(s) you'll make. You can also do this thru the world of modern engineering... I bought a borescope on Amazon, and it actually works quite well. It's made by Teslong and I use it to inspect my cylinders, valves, camshaft lobes, etc. I also use it to get perfect TDC to adjust the rockers on my "huffers" with longer lobed cams. If you do buy a borescope, make sure it has a small camera and cable (5-8mm), so it fits nicely inside the plug hole. It's a good investment for engines, around the house, checking that filling that's falling out, etc.
5. If you don't find anything obvious, then saturate with Mystery Oil or whatever penetrating oil and let it do its thing.
   1. TIP: As long as you know what you are doing, you can pry on the crank. These cranks were made out of tool steel but don't test it. Without hanging off it like a monkey or using a 6' cheater, pry to one side and then to the other like rocking the car back and forth. DO NOT FORCE IT! If it doesn't move with a little effort, stop and let the penetrant continue to work.
   2. This also applies to stuck bolts! Turn them one direction and then the other until they are free or simply break them off like the idiot at the exhaust shop, buy some Heli-Coils and get to drilling.
6. MOST OF ALL REMEMBER... If it doesn't feel right, STOP! (that's what she said) and re-think your plan or come back and ask for more help. You may even meet someone on here that lives near you and can give you a hand.

Again, as for turning the crank to get it "unstuck", I've had that method bite me in the butt a couple of times.
Call H&H or another Flatty company and they may be able to help. Then ask them what a new crank would cost and I'm sure you'll make the right decision(s).
Over the years, I've learned to investigate and ascertain as to what I'm dealing with before I go down "the rabbit hole of no return".

Keep us involved and be safe!
Brother Edsel.

 

Nice looking '40 (Standard) Ford coupe___ for parts, you may also want to look at the Ford Barn website?
Welcome to the H.A.M.B.

 

I added my location. Denver area.
Thanks everyone for the advice. I can be an impatient person but I have learned over the years if something isn’t going as planned, stop and step back and reevaluate. This will be no different and I will take it slow and careful!

 

A 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF is what I use on stuck flatheads. Time is your friend. As already said, don't force it. For parts my go to is Joe's Antique Auto in Uxbridge, MA
https://www.joesantiqueauto.com/
Also check out the Ford Barn
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/