I know this has probably been asked, but which head gasket do you use when putting 46-48 heads on a `53 block? Cause I don`t know. Thanks for any help.
You need to use the '46-'48 gaskets and plug the holes near the front of each deck for the water pump bypasses. You also will need to make a hold-down for the later dizzy if you use one.
Napa sells their Victor gaskets (1026K, I think) that are really re-packaged Fel-Pro blue. Nice gaskets.
The late gaskets are often used on early engines to help with overheating/cooling problems, so you can use either style, but you definitely need to plug the unused holes in the block and heads. Pretty easy; jusy run in a pipe tap and stick in some plugs. Juts make sure the heads are below the deck.
I've heard this as well - it seems like it might be a relatively "new" bit of "tech" as I never heard this as recently as four or five years ago. It is usually accompanied by the suggestion to port match the water passages in the early head to the 8BA gasket. The late heads had very large passages at the rear of the block/heads & the water outlet at the front of the head. The thinking was to make the majority of the water go all the way through the block then have to come all the way back through the head. If that theory works (I see little cooling differences between 59A & 8BA style engines) in practice, by using the big water ports in the rear, but having the outlets in the middle, I could see where the front cylinders might be warmer than the rear cylinders. Obviously, I've never tried it myself, nor measured it & have always stuck to the "use the same gaskets the heads would use" school of thought... I'm not advocating using 8BA on 59A heads, nor am I saying it won't work - I simply haven't tried it, but the theory that it helps is sketchy IMO.
I was always of the "use gaskets to fit the heads school," like Flat Ernie, but after trying unsuccessfully to get an answer to this question a couple years back, I saw the suggestion to use the late gaskets on early engines in Red's catalog. I figured I'd take a long hard look at the water passages and gaskets and decide for myself. Regardless of opening up the rear passages in the heads to match the block, the late gasket chokes the flow near the center outlet to ensure better cooling to the end cylinders which has to be a good thing. The early heads I am running now had obviously been used with late gaskets for a long time by the looks of the deck surfaces so I decided to give it a try. The engine runs great with absolutely no signs of cooling problems.
Have you had a chance to check the temp on each cylinder to see if there's any significant difference between front & rear cylinders? I've done it with an IR temp gun just for giggles, but never with the 8BA gaskets on 59A heads on an 8BA block...I'd be curious. Overheating flattys have more to do with timing & clean blocks than virtually anything else...
Good idea, Flat Ernie. I can borrow one from work to check out the steady state variation along each bank. What kind of temperatures did you see on the 59A and the 8BA? The 59A design was intended to provide better cooling by increasing flow in the center to accomodate the heat load of the Siamese exhaust port (There is even a mod in the shop manual for the earlier 41T motors for the newer 59A design/gasket). I do remember reading about some racers going to great lengths to run tubes in the cooling jackets to direct more flow to #4 & 8, ala the later 8BA design. Giving Henry's guys perhaps a little too much credit, maybe they were onto something to tool up for the redesigned coolant flow which has pretty much been the norm on all V8s til today. Of course, the siamese exhaust port in the block complicates things a bit...
The flow patterns are fundamentally different, and I can't see how 8BA gaskets could work right with 59 type heads. First, there are 3 basic patterns of gasket available: 1. Early with big trapezoidal hole near center. Do not use on anything--its ONLY application is prewar block with prewar heads, and on that combo Ford said to redrill head holes and go to gasket #2 to improve cooling! 2. Early with only round holes near center. 3. 8BA Now, with all 8BA parts, water flow to front areas is severely throttled by small gasket holes so that most water goes to the big rear passage, then flows all the way forward in head to exit. Fine. But it seems to me, if you use that with early heads, again most water flows all the way back, comed up and forward through head, and exits at...the MIDDLE, leaving front cylinders shortchanged on flow. The 59A round hole gaskets were Ford's answer to flow control with early type outlet (both on OEM application '46-48 and as an upgrade for '39-'42-WWII engines), and they accoomplish the same thing as 8BA for the center outlet--water to ends in block, then to outlet via heads. Note they are throttled a bit more tightly in front than rear to tune for the natural flow advantage of the cylinders close to the pumps.
I thought about this alot before I decided to follow Red's recommendation. Bruce is correct, the 8BA gasket with the 59A heads will eliminate flow in the head over the front two cylinders compared to an 8BA, but this does not affect the flow around the front cylinders themselves which is controlled by steamholes in the head gasket. The pressure/water flow to the front cylinders is kept higher than in an 8BA because the flow out of the large passages at the back of the block is choked by the smaller 59A passages. There will be a greater flow of cool water from the radiator to the forward cylinders, so the forward portion of the head is not short changed, just cooled by the increased flow around the cylinders rather than the water coming from the back of the head. Since the water coming from the back of the block is already hot by the time it reaches the forward cylinders, it has little cooling value and just dumps out the center outlet. All this theory aside, it works pretty well
My guess is that the minimal water coming from the steam holes to the front portion of the head is much hotter than the rest of the wter simply due to flow. I think you're short-changing the value of flow. If you had the same flow throughout, you'd be correct, but by using the 8BA gaskets on the 59A heads, you're losing flow at the front of the head. You're also the only person I've seen running this who did not also port the passages in the 59A head to match the 8BA gasket, so maybe you're not losing as much flow as I would have thought, but then it defeats the purpose of running the 8BA gasket maybe?
I guess what it comes down to is that you are reducing the flow at the front of the engine to feed the relatively water-starved rear cylinders. The 8BA gasket's forward steam holes are still pretty big, not the 1/8" diameter ones you see in modern V8's, so you're going to get good flow through them. By not porting you essentially take advantage of the 8BA's increased flow to the back of the engine and eliminate the problem Bruce was alluding to in his post above by keeping the pressure up to the front cylinders.
I need to get both gaskets out & look - I'm not following what you're saying based on memory (which means my memory is most likely failing me!) - not even sure I have an 8BA gasket...maybe I'll dig in my books.
Don't know if this will work... 59A type gasket pic, round holes in center: http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPag...Number=7283B&Description=Cylinder+Head+Gasket Prewar superceded gasket: http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPag...Number=7548B&Description=Cylinder+Head+Gasket Descriptions and pictures don't match right at NAPA, so be careful... And we need heads in hand to study this whem mismatching bits, as in some cases head hole will be smaller than gasket hole, changing the locus of control.
And a link to the Ford Shop Manual showing how to modify the early 41T heads courtesy Mac VanPelt: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_37-48engine-rebuilding/v8_overhaul-S125-1.htm http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_37-48engine-rebuilding/v8_overhaul-S125-2.htm
Yeah - it's about how I remember (obviously, I don't remember every little hole!) - honestly don't see the benefit of running 8BA gaskets on 59A heads. But if it works, run it!
It's probably not a "better," just an "either." I suspect that once they got away from the 41T gasket with the large center openings, as long as an engine doesn't have other problems, the basic design is sufficiently overcooled that either gasket will work fine.
I did a pretty thorough study on the 8 series head a year ago and posted on here. If interested do an advanced search for Yikes(Milled a head backwards.) There were actually 2 sucessive posts but they didn't stay together. Seems to me most of the water leaving the block on the 59A/B series would be through the 2 slightly larger holes in the gasket in the center of the heads. This may not allow as much water to the rear cylinders because the holes in gasket at the rear are smaller diameter in fact about the same as the front. Henry's engineers had to spend a bundle on re-design and re-tooling when they came up with the 8 series blocks/heads.
Great tech, I remember seeing that! Here's the links: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95586&highlight=Yikes+Milled+a+head+backwards http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99053&highlight=Yikes+Milled+a+head+backwards
I built an 8BA with 59 A Offy heads, and run copper big bore gaskets. The block was cleaned well, it uses new Speedway pumps and stainless washers with 5/8 holes in place of thermostats. At 6 degrees initial timing it runs about 150 to 170 in normal traffic, up to 200 in heavy trafic when the outside air temp in in the high 90's. After a short break in, all cylinders were within five degrees with a heat gun. The center exhaust ports were ten degrees warmer. The TPI electric temp gauge was right on the money.
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