My grandpa was over the other day checkin out my flathead powered model a tudor project. He told me back in the day they used to take 8ba heads and switch them around backwards on opposite sides. This made the engine cool better by putting the water outlet at the rear of the engine, wich caused more coolant flow tho the back of the engine. Anyone ever seen this or heard of it? Sounds like it might be crazy enough to work to me but it will be awhile before i get to test it out>
Someone, like Bruce Lancaster, chime in and comment on this. This is exactly what research on the SBC revealed years ago and was the basis for the reverse flow idea being incorporated. Frank
I doubt the water passages would line up. Valve location is slightly different on the two cylinder banks, most likely creating valve to head interference.
It's not that water didn't circulate at all, but Ford actually did redesign the water passages on later blocks to get more circulation to the back of the block. And yes TUDORTOBY, I have seen at least one old picture of a hot rod with heads swapped side to side exactly the way you describe. I'm sure it didn't hurt cooling. Also Barney Navarro has described in detail how he would snake a piece of copper tubing into the block to get water to the back half quicker.
I don't know about the cooling issues, but I too have seen an 8BA motor with heads swapped side to side. It was a blower motor, and I think it was done for clearance issues. Doc.
I've never seen it and it might be a ton of work to do as some have said...but neither of those facts ever stopped an industrious Hot Rodder from doing the impossible before...if he thought it would be a step forward for some reason. There isn't much that hasn't been tried at some point. Whats needed is actual pictures of swap.
Of course; Taxing a motor beyond it's design, as Navarro did, needed refinements, but if turning the head around would be an 'effective' way to adress cooling issues, I'll bet Navarro would have turned the head around too. If it really worked then it is traditional in every sense of the word, so why aren't the majority that think they have cooling problems doing it? I had been driving about ten years before we had a car without pressure cap, so I can assert that in stock configuration Ford V8 don't have any more cooling issues than Ford 4 cyl, Chivvy, Plymouth,etc. before they went to pressure caps. Until somebody shows me that the water dont circulate throughout the flathead V8 block(in stock configuration), I'll stand down.
LMOA, I had to do a double take when I first read the post, I thought he was literally just putting the same side head on backwards and I was just imagining the valve clearance issues with that I haven't paid much attention to the heads and the water passages. I would assume its not just a straight forward thing, that Ford designed the setup to allow more flow into the head from the back of the motor. If the water passages in the back of the head are bigger, then you might actually increase the cooling problem since swapping the heads would put those bigger holes at the front of the motor (of course Ford's flow patterns could have been built into the block or the head gasket as well -- so I am just thinking out loud).
No one has said water does not circulate through a flathead block in stock configuration. So "standing down" is not necessary... you shouldn't even be standing up! Look, the entire reason for being here is to tax our motors beyond original design. This is a hot rod forum. I am not saying flipping heads worked... I'm saying: 1) Hot rodders did do it. I have seen the pictures. So it is not some work of fiction dreamed up by this guy's grandpa. 2) Ford did redesign water passages to get more coolant to the back of the block. And Ford generally did not redesign something if there were no problems at all. Navarro mostly ran 59 heads (center outlet) and did all kinds of things to his engines, so I think he was way beyond swapping heads side to side.
If head gaskets will swap side to side, then the heads should too. Valves are set up the same configuration on each side so there would be no clearance issues there. Only thing I see is thermostat housings hitting the firewall and some long top coolant hoses. I could see this on a blower motor, especially if it had overheating issues.
The early flathead heads have the water outlet on the front of the head and later ones have it in the center of the head. if you swap the early ones the water outlet would be on the back of the block and ginving beter water flow thru the block from front to back.
I imagine every possible combination was tried on the old flat motors to either help cooling or make something else work better. It would be more work than its worth on an 8BA. Coil mount in wrong place, distributor hold down, etc. The big holes in the back of the block wouldn't match the little holes in the front of the head and visa versa. Anything is possible but the value of some mods are questionable.
Think he's talking early... and later. I lot of hot rodders don't even consider an 8BA - just "late model junk".
Look, you use Navarro logic to support your opinion, but back off on the specific comparison? If switching the heads around really worked then it is traditional in every sense of the word, so why aren't the majority that think they have cooling problems doing it?
Has anyone mentioned that the 8BA has two distinkly different heads and gaskets for the left and the right, I mean other than just the water outlet.
Huh, I sure am curious to know what you think my opinion is... since I haven't given it. If you can go back through my (unedited) posts and find it I will apologize. Until then I'll just take it that you either misread my post, or are looking for an argument where there was none. adjustablejohnsons - Admittedly I don't know what 8-track was thinking.
I had a friend that died a couple years ago from HueyTown Al.. His nickman was Roundman, very well known in roundy round racing and rodding. He had a 39 deluxe or could have been a 40 standard. It had a 8ba with the heads on backwards and used very small hoses on top. He said it cooled better and I had no reason to doubt him.
I guess the answer to this thread would depend on specificaly wich heads and what block he is used. I was confused at first but it could make sence.
Buddy of mine picked up a 1940 block with 8ba heads on it and they were mounted backwards. I don't know if it worked as the engine was frozen up when he got it. We just shook our heads and thought what the hell abomination is this. The engine is now rebuilt and running in his car but with early heads on it.
I had thought of that, but I don't think there are any critical areas of difference between the two. Might need to plug a hole in the block or head the same way you would with an early/late head swap. Never physically mocked it up though.
I've seen them reversed to address odd clearance issues. Ususally converted to nipple with small size hose. Now, flathead flow 101: '39-48 types have block flow exit upward with bias to bothe ends over middle, so water passes everything, goes up, then out at middle after flowing across both ends of heads. Rear always had slightly bigger holes to boost the natural difficulty of being farther from pumps, middle holes were tinkered with over time to equalize things...all early heads can be modified by Ford instructions and gaskets swapped to 59A to get the final combination. As with late heads, water is forced over all cylinders then across head...opposite to the short lived LT Yunick style from Chevy. Late '49-53 had large block holes and gasket holes at rear...flow was mostly forced over all cylinders in a single direction, then up and forward across whole length of head in a single direction. Put outlet in rear...does the water now have any real reason to cool the cylinder head?? Most can just go right out, restricting back there by gasket or outlet mods will add some backpressure but no directed flow over most of the top, it seems to me.
Apologize, I just stumbled on this thread looking for info about f/h blower manifolds for a friend. Suddenly it occurred to me, why hasn't anyone ever cast some 8BA heads with the water outlets in the center? Heck, besides stepping all over aesthetics, why hasn't someone put covers on the outlets of an 8BA head and welded on some center outlets to see if there are any advantages to getting the water to flow out of there? I guess this occurred to me because I saw a fellow in Encinitas recently at a woodie show who had some cast aluminum heads for a 21 stud where there were water pump outlets on both ends of the heads. That way, they were symmetrical, needing only one casting for both heads and there was just a flat plate put over the outlets at the rear. Genius!
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