History Flathead Heads made pre-war?

Thanks Bruce hoped you may know, very interesting about the manifold and the four barrel design...

can you tell me anything more about the Bohn-a-lite heads I posted above?
I gather they were built for the Miller-Ford indy cars but did Ford have to say they were standard or available to the public as bolt on's for the to be alowed to used in the race?
were they ever produced for general sale?
This is the only picture I've ever seen of them......sure would look great on my '35 pump in head flattie!

Jay

 

From what I know where were a few pre-war head manufacturers: Roof, Ord, Meyer, Bonalite, Federal Mogul - possibly Thickston.

I'm currently restoring a set of original pre-war Eddie Meyer 24 stud heads - they have the oblong spark plug pocket areas and a much different chamber design from his later ones. These early chamber designs were done by Ed Winfield and Eddie Meyer in collaboration . . . guess they were good buddies. The heads are going on a pre-war 1942 full-race flathead I've just started building - based on a almost NOS 1942 Merc block (was a WWII engine that was in a crate, looks like it was only broken in and never ran).

Attached is a 10 page Hop-Up article all about Eddie Meyer and the whole pre-war race scene. Some fantastic pictures and history here. Look at the last page - seems the George Duval was the guy who drew up Eddie's famous 'Hollywood' logo . . . that is cool shit!

When my heads are done, will post some pictures.

B&S

 

Is almost NOS like almost a virgin?

 

Yep - pretty much, your chances of really finding a virgin or pretty slim, so you gotta get as close as you can!

 

Bored, do you have a picture of those prewar chambers?? That is an interesting coalition for sure.
Mad, the Indy stuff did not need to have anything much in common with production beyond the basic engine, I think...the formula during the great depression encouraged stock-block entries but with modifications. I don't think a whole lot is known about the insides of those...outside pics show dual Stromberg (40?) carbs on the fastest, Miller carbs on the rest, and an oil cooler in pump intake...I assume the engines were basically ported high compression and cam jobs, but do not actually know.
At the same period, stock car racing was popular...'33 Ford roadsters were timed lapping a long road course in the 80+MPH range and hitting 100 on the straight back stretch. These cars were supposed to be stock except for some stripping, and were torn down and inspected after the race, but who knows how sophisticated the inspecting and cheating might have been...
The stock series died young because all races were won by long parades of '32-34 Ford roadsters...nothing else was ever competitive.
The Indy cars failed in their '35 race, but had long careers after that with more than one engine type. This probably ensured the loss of most of the original hardware.

 

Hey Bruce:

My heads are at the machine shop getting welded on (as I don't do aluminum TIG on anything!). I looked at Don Orosco's site - he has what I believe to be historically correct repops. I can't see his chambers up close, but they do look like my heads.

When I get the heads back, will take close-up pictures. As noted in the Hop-Up article, when Eddie and Winfield designed the chambers (1938), they did angle the areas over the valves to match the canted valve angles - to keep compression up. Also the chambers do choke off the exhaust transfer a bit (as compared to most modern designs).

Whether or not these heads are any good - who knows, but I'm going to give them a try. I'll probably have the domes redone a bit - the original profile is too "pointed" in the middle, not a smooth radius like the aftermarket pistons are.

I'll have some custom pistons made - to match the dome profile and to get a quench of .040. I've found that a really tight chamber to piston clearance is key to flathead performance - most engines are way too open in this area.

Anyway, we'll see if this all works . . . or if I make a PreWar 'Dog' out of it!

The first photo is from Orosco - these are the style on the very early PreWar heads (like mine):



The second photo is also from Orosco - these are claimed to be the style of Post WWII heads - I've never seen this chamber:



The third photo is from a set of original 49-53 heads - these are the later chamber designs:



Enjoy!

B&S

 

I think (deduced from pics in a flathead book, Oddo or Tex) that 21 stud Meyers came in versions for flattop pistons ('32-6 type) and for dome piston (as on some '35-6 and all later 221 pistons). Don't remember shapes of transfer area...
I had a set once, long before repros, but have deleted everything about them from my mind because I had to give them to a desperate friend, and I miss them...Sob, sob. Whine.
By the way, I've found a good tool...a carpentry type contour gauge. Shove it into chamber all the way across, use it to trace contour so you can more easily compare transfer area differences.
I've got some 99 and 19 type engines...one will get my 81AS Denver heads.

 

Bruce have you ever seen one of these?

I have a letter opener that is stamped
"Ford Motor Company V8 First sheet thru 56 in.
Cold strip mill Dec 20 1935"

 

Anyone got any more pictures of these?

 

Thanks Bruce, I always thought there was a little rule bending going on in the Gilmore cup and Mines field races for the Ford's to be lapping that quick!
very brave drivers indeed at that speed....
My fav story about the mines field race is, after the race, the course doc came back to his new '34 roadster parked on the in field to find it stripped of its tie rod and other parts by persumably desperate race teams...

Jay

 

Here are the chambers on my heads - as noted, they look like the 21-Stud designs that Don Orosco has:

Note: The areas over the valves are canted to match the valve angle. What I have not measured is whether or not they actually had a 'left and right' head - as the angles are not the same. (49.5 degress to 52 degrees).