Technical Flathead oil pan HELP

Hello,

I installed the motor in my 1951 Ford Custom Tudor sedan. It was a nearly all original, very very very stock car when the motor went. I pulled the motor out myself as I've been a mechanic for more than 10 years. Prior to having a motor problem, I had upgraded to a steering setup from Shoebox-Central that is intended to fit all 49-51 fords with flathead V8's. It specifically states ALL.


Now, I had a motor built by a gentleman in Salt Lake City and he was 100% aware that the motor was going to be installed in a shoebox, specially a 1951. The motor was mildly built with a 4" crank and cam, but is otherwise completely standard 8BA.

The problem I'm having is that the oil pan on the motor he sent me (which mind you, is already bolted into my car and isn't coming back out) seems to have a larger (extends further rearward) sump than my factory pan. What I can't figure out, is what car this oil pan would be intended for?? It's literally about 3/4" - 1" larger to the rear. And that means I have to modify my steering setup, as the tie rod ends now hit the oil pan.

Does anyone know if ford made several different center sump, 49-51 car style oil pans? What gives??


P.s. Please understand that I know that it is not a truck or Mercury pan. This is a the proper center sump for a car, the sump just seems slightly too large.

 

1952-53 Ford and Mercury cars used a ribbed center sump pan that is slightly different than the '49-'51 Ford car smooth center sump pan, and may be what you have on the new engine.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that there are different sumps for different applications, I personally don't care if your car is a, lunar lander makes no difference to me. If I had to fathom a guess it would be that your pan is for an earlier car like a '46-'48. They did not change the block when they designated the motor an 8BA. So an earlier pan would bolt up.

Now the question is what are you d going to do to solve the problem with the mars rover. Do you have the original pan or are you going to take a ball peen to the existing pan or?????

 

Both my stock pan and the pan that the guy installed are smooth sided. They look so similar that until the interference problem arose, I didn't even notice the difference.

As far as I know, the ealy motors had rear pans. There was no need for steering linkage to go under the motor because the cars all had straight I-beam type axles.

And since you seem concerned, I'm just going to re-engineer the new steering linkage I have because it's not an original part anyway and I don't really care. I'm at least as good of a welder as the guy who built it and I can actually make it fit well because I can tailor it for my car.



The reason for my post was just to try and figure out what's the deal with this oil pan.

 

Never Dun 51: Please post photos of what you have, if possible.

 

Beano: 46--48 pans fit the 59ab blocks with integral bellhousing, correct?

The 8ba had a "regular" pan. I think v8bob nailed it. Tim

 

I can't really. One motor is in the car the other is completely dis***embled and the oil pan is in a box somewhere. No side to side comparison. I'll try to take measurements if I can at some point, but this is really just an educational thread. I'm not pulling the motor out and changing the pan. I'm just going to re-engineer my steering.

 

Good solution. I may have just changed the pan but that is a good solution as well.

Ya know it would be easier for me to pigeon hole your car [see our sig] if I knew what color it is. Maybe it is one of those deep space probe thingamabobs.

@timwhit I forgot about the bell you are probably correct.

 

Hey bud, I already said that I DO NOT have the ribbed pan from the later motor. BOTH PANS ARE SMOOTH.

 

yeah ******, pulling a motor is a good alternative to 20 minutes with a cutoff wheel and a welder.

 

I have never had an issue with it, but like I said your solution is good. We all do things differently and its not so much about how you get to the end of the road just that you get there, isn't it.

 

gee, want help identifying something that you do not have pics of - must be a big shop if you can not find the original pan - I have something in my hand and I need you to identify it

 

Joker, cool name, very appropriate. I never asked you to specifically identify my pan. I'm asking if people know of more than one smooth sided, center sump oil pan. I already did all the forum searches and google searches and looked at all the pictures. There's no way to identify the pan on my motor without pulling the motor so specific measurements could be taken, because it literally appears identical to the other pan. Smooth sided, middle sump, dipstick tube in the same spot and same thread, etc. I've done quite a few motors in my day and have always known to look things over before I put them in to check for differences. Literally, the only difference in the pans is that the rear face of the sump that has the oil plug is somewhere around 1/2 inch further back than the stock 51 oil pan. That's the oil difference. Period.


And the 22 mile drive back to my house to take a picture of the oil pan combined with the 10 miles to my shop where my car is, then the 25ish miles back to work just so I can take a picture is the problem. I'm at work and the parts are not only not here at work, but in 2 separate locations.

 

Pull the damn motor and do it right. Not that hard.

 

Ok people, if you don't have info about the oil pan, don't post here. I'm not looking for your opinion of what I should do with my car. This is not a POST YOUR FEELINGS thread. It's an oil pan thread.

 

Ok, to clear up some confusion, this oil pan that I'm having a problem with, would not be an issue with the stock steering linkage. It would be a fair bit closer to the center link, but it would work.

All I'm trying to find out is if anyone has ANY EXPERIENCE at all with a car oil pan that simply has a slightly oversized center sump. That's all. I'm already familiar with the rear sump pans from the tin bellhousing models, the later ribbed pans, the Mercury large clean out pans, and the truck large clean out pans. The pan from the original and the new pan appear completely identical. The only difference would be if you were to measure from the rear facing wall of the lowest sump to the very back of the pan, the new one is about 3/4" further backward. That's its.

 

Also, just called shoebox-central. They claim the ribbed pan is correct for a shoebox and the smooth is not, going against what someone said earlier in the post. Who knew that information on these old motors would be so hard to find.......

 

Here are the only pics I have on my phone at the moment. They may or may not help. Two pics of my old pan with the linkage taken from under the car, the rest with the new engine on an engine stand. As you can see, both pans, no ribs. One works, one doesn't work. Only slightly different. Anyone ever run into this?

I understand that if my car had a ribbed pan and I put a smooth pan on, I could have potential problems. But what gives, the guy asked what I needed for a pan, I looked, mine was smooth, I said smooth. Done deal........OR not so much. Also, let me reiterate, both pans would work with the stock steering linkage. Only because my aftermarket linkage tries to fit the tie rod ends between the pan and bellhousing is this an issue.

 

Surprised Shoebox Ford stated that, because it's not true. However, there may be slight differences between the '49-'51 smooth sided pans that I'm unaware of. Fact is, you have a pan that will fit. Use that one, or modify the steering.

 

Bob, due to the fact that the oil pan in the car on my new motor would be okay with stock steering linkage and the aftermarket linkage is the real problem, I'll modify the linkage. This car will never be a concourse winner, so I'm pretty sure that I'm happy with a modified aftermarket steering linkage, rather than pull a fresh built, freshly painted motor, to change an oil pan, then put it back in, because it doesn't fit with aftermarket parts.

 

10 years is not much..wait till you've been at it for over 50 then you will learn what patience is..
Your first call should have been to Shoebox central if they are the ones who built your steering mod.
Then fo;ks here on the HAMB offer some help and you get your ******* in a wad...grow up junior

 

Du8n 51: Is that a Fatman Fabrications steering kit? If so it's designed to eliminate bump steer so you might want to leave it alone. I don't know, but perhaps there was a slight design change in the 8BA oil pans. I wonder if the oil pan for the automatic transmission car is a bit different. If you can't find out the oil pan differences, modify the oil pan or get the one that fits. I know it's a pain to do it, but once you do it the right way you will be very happy and feel good knowing you solved your problem correctly. You don't want to mess up your steering geometry.

 

I want to personally thank you for all of your knowledge of flathead oil pans. Your response really contributed to the knowledge base on this website.


I really thought that posting on here was to spread knowledge. I didn't post on here asking for a solution to my problem. I posted asking if anyone had seen different center sump oil pan sizes. You guys really don't have anything better to do that talk trash to people on Internet forums? My good god, go talk trash down at your local cruise nights. This forum is for INFORMATION, which is what I was looking for.

Never did I ask "How do I make my steering linkage work with this oil pan?"

 

Fordy, I absolute agree that proper steering geometry is important. The fact is that the stock steering linkage had terrible bump steer because the tie rods were so short. I'm not messing around with tie rod length or anything like that. All I'm going to do is clock the flag that the tie rods mount to more so than it is straight up and down, rather than canted towards the front of the car. I don't see that as being a problem or affecting the steering operation, as long as there are no interference problems with the linkage.

 

Dun 51: I see your point and your idea may work. Give Fatman Fabrications a call and send them photos so that they can give you expert advice. That piece of metal may be canted for some reason we are not aware of. I know there is something about keeping the tie rods level with the control arms, so that may be why the metal block is canted. Brent VanDervort the owner of Fatman's can help you for sure. Good luck.

 

Not to be a smart *** but have you tried calling and asking the guy who put it on there? He may have thought it a good idea because it holds more oil and knows what it is.

 

Tim, you're not being a smart*** at all. I have spoken with my engine builder who has been building flatheads for over 40 years and he said that he never knew that there were different sized smooth sided pans. He said that anytime someone asked for a motor with a smooth sided pan, it fit, and the same with a ribbed pan. This was the first time he's heard of a motor that had a smooth pan being removed and another smooth pan not fitting.


I've literally asked all the questions to all the right people. I have been at this long enough myself to know what to look for as well. I did my research before and what I couldn't find definite answers on (like this), I just matched what I saw in the car. So far, I've got 2 people telling me the car should have ribbed and 2 telling me the car should have smooth. BUT, no one can tell me they've ever seen 2 different smooth sided, center sump pans. That's incredible.

 

Consider this the pan is stamped and henry used different sub contractors from time to time. You are using a steering setup that fits several years, some might call that universal, I maybe wouldn't go that far but it is something to think about.
There may be no definitive answer to the question. All you know for sure is that your hot rod is not a bolt together, at this point and you are going to fix the problem. How you make it work is up to you and you will overcome it before all is said and done.

One thing that has stuck in my mind for a very long time, there was a '70s sitcom that didn't even last an entire season, and I don't remember much about it other than there was this fat girl who was in high school and when she was buying ***** hose she came to this startling conclusion, "One size does not fit all." I am reminded of this every time I pick up a hot rod part and have to alter it to make it work.

 

******, how did you know my underwear doesn't fit right?

 

Because mine don't and I don't want to be the only one with that problem.