Flathead transmission/clutch issues

Ive bolted my '35 ****** to my 59a with a 10 inch clutch, now the throwout bearing wont engage the pressure plate arms. Has anyone ran into this issue? I talked to an old timer today and he said he thinks the counterweights might be hitting the inside of the ****** bell housing. I didnt get a chance to look into it when i got home so im not sure. I was just wondering if anyone has had the same problem? What is the easiest solution? I was thinking *possibly* lightly grinding down the spots the counterweights are hitting?

 

i would say he is exactly right. no need to run a clutch of that size. if im not mistaken, the 78 case will accept larger clutch. if thats all you have to run then grinding could be an option. i have never done it.

 

The motor had a later 4 speed truck ****** on it when i bought it. I traded it for the earlier ****** and replaced the 10 inch clutch. Now im having problems. I would run a 9 inch clutch but i was told i will have to change the flywheel. Is that true?

 

yes just as skidmarks said. a really fun job with a p***enger car oilpan..

 

Before you do anything, you need to know what the actual problem is. I can see no way that the trans case is hitting the outside counter weights. And if they did, the case would be pushing them TOWARD the flywheel, which would not move the 3 engagement levers away from the throwout bearing face. If the trans did hit the counter weights, I don't think you could even bolt it up! Are you sure you have the correct throwout bearing and clutch fork?

I had a 59AB in my 34 Ford when I acquired it - had a 9 inch clutch and a STD 34 trans. If you have the right flywheel, throwout and clutch fork, it should be okay. Take a picture of the clutch as it is installed and bolted down to the flywheel - I'd like to see what it looks like! I don't know your exact combo, but I think you have a different problem from what you're thinking.

 

The trans is bolted all the way into place with the 10in clutch disc. The fork and bearing are correct. If the trans is pushing against the weights, the bearing would only be able to slide up to the pressure plate arms and then stop. Any further pressure would continue to press the counterweights toward the driver and into the trans case. Does that make sense, im not sure if i explained that right.

 

Okay, now I get it . . . the throwout bearing does touch the clutch levers, but you can't depress them - it is like you're pushing against a solid wall? This is why it seems the counter weights are getting hung up?

When you look at the back of the engine (trans off), are the counter weights located such that the trans can hit them? You might want to pull the inspection cover off the trans and shine a light down into it -- so see if the counter weights are hitting the trans case. I only have 39 trans cases, so I can't measure for you.

 

Thats exactly whats happening. I didnt get a lot of time to investigate (damn job!) so im going to deal with it tomorrow. I took off the inspection plate and thats when i realized the bearing was just pushing up to the arms and not depressing them. Ill see if i can use a flashlight to see where they might be hitting. Another idea i had was to slowly unbolt the ****** until i can get the motor to spin with a socket/breaker, and let it lightly rub the inside of the trans. Then ill know where to apply some "m***aging"

 

You canot use the 10" clutch with the early trans case. You will have to grind the bell housing or use the 9" clutch.

 

Have you had to grind on the bellhouseing before? How much material is taken out? Im trying to decide whcih is easier; change the flywheel and clutch, grind transmission, or change the case?

 

If it was mine, I'd not grind the case . . . I'd find a 39 Box and run a 10" clutch. The 'spur cut' gears and older synchros on the 35 box are not all that great anyway, so you'll definitely have an 'upgrade' when you put a 39 box in it. I ran a 39 box with Zephyr gears in my 34 for years - worked great (though I did break it a few times . . . big engine, blower, heavy right foot, etc!).

 

A proper '35 trans should clear 10 and 11" clutches...first year of this.
Look at the forwardmost part of your case, where it bolts to pan and bellhousing.
Going back from the flange, an EARLY type, supposedly just '32-4, tapers contiuously back for several inches with no significant change in taper.
A LATE case, supposedl including all 1935 and up, goes nealry STRAIGHT back from the flange for about an inch, THEN tapers.
If yours fits ealy description, something about that is likely culprit.
If late, we have wierdness going on and an autopsy is needed!

I have never used an early case with big clutch...I have been told that interference is very minor and is all on the bosses for crossshaft, easilg ground to fit.
Ford not only changed that taper, they lowered the cross shaft very slightly...late fork is longer, forks interchange BACK but I think not FORWARD in time.

 

Alright, a little update. I tried turning over the motor using the crank bolt, it turned just fine. I think i have the later case from what Bruce is saying. So, i pulled the ****** and tried to push on the pressure plate arms and they didnt move. As i was unbolting the pressure plate, the arms returned to the proper position (moving towards the ******). I know it sounds crazy, but it almost sounds like the clutch is too thick, causing the pressure plate to compress when bolted down? I dunno, im really getting frustrated here! Any ideas? Were in a marathon thrash to get this thing done!

 

disc to thick? Come on, you have miss matched parts. When you load a pressure plate the release arms are supossed to go down. This is how the thing clamps.

Have you removed the cover and looked in to se what the problem is exactly? How far is the bearing from the arms?

 

the first clutch that i change with a pair of vise gribs and hammer 1949 ford.
put the clutch in up side down.

 

Post a picture of the clutch disk and pressure plate. I have a 10" racing clutch and disk out in the shop (can drop you pictures back and/or compare any measurements). This clutch was ran in a 59L with a 39 box - doesn't have much wear on it, just a couple p***es at the drags.

Also: Any measurements might help -- like how far the clutch face is from the bolt surface when it is out of the car, thickness of the disk, etc.. My clutch is a typical Ford Long style - hopefully yours is the same.

 

Well, the bearing slides forward and touches the arms and stops. When i took the ****** off, i pushed on the arms and they didnt move. I want to say they were all the way forward.

Ill try to get some pics up today. I tried last night and my comp. was giving me problems. Thanks for the hel guys, ill keep troubleshooting...

 

Heres some pics of what im working with. I put the clutch and pressure plate back in and the arms moved towards the engine again. I tried to push on the pressure plate arms to move them and they barely budge. Shouldnt i be able to push them in? The pics below are of the clutch all bolted in to place. The last one is me wondering if this clutch will defeat me

 

How thick is your clutch disk? If you give me the dims, I'll measure mine and I'll also mount my 10" clutch and disk on the flywheel I ran it on - just so we can compare notes. I'm not sure, but it almost looks like the disk is too thick - but that is a wild *** guess at this point. I'll check mine out tomorrow in the shop - might help you.

 

This clutch measures exactly 10 inches across and the actual clutch disc is about 5/16th wide.

 

Installed, it does look like the arms are too low...which would be the case if the disk was too thick. However, your disk looks OK (of course, hard to tell w/pics)...

Where did you get the pressure plate? New? Rebuilt?

 

In reading your thread as thoroughly as I can, it appears to me that everything is in proper order. The clutch levers should move toward the engine as the pressure plate is installed with the 6 bolts. This is the pressure that is applied to hold the clutch disc to the flywheel. The throwout bearing then contacts the fingers with the trans installed, and with a lot of additional pressure the fingers are further depressed to release the clutch disc. If you were trying to depress the clutch with the engine out of the car, you'd have to be Godzilla to move the clutch release shaft, without the leverage provided by the clutch pedal linkage. JMO
Jim

 

Man, I just ****oned up my trany I'm swapping engines and I just did this job. First when you bolt the flywheel, pressure plate and disc up together you must relieve the spring pressure on the pressure plate. Do this by using a pry bar catch the edge of the pressure plate housing and bridge the end of the throw out finger, stand on the pressure plate and pry so the finger goes down ward, takes a little pressure. Insert a head nut between the finger arm and the case and release pressure to the arm, nut holds arm in idle position. Do this for all three pressure plate fingers. Don't get your fingers in there when you release the pressure or your new code name will be Three Quarter Finger. The reason for doing this is to relieve the pressure on the clutch disk and not use the bolts to draw up the loaded springs. Becareful the pressure plate bolts are special shoulder bolts, don't snap them off. Neverseze the input shaft support bearing. Now with a stub input shaft for a clutch pilot. Begin ***embly, Install clutch disc on dummy input shaft and insert shaft into crank support bearing, now at an angle install the pressure plate over the input shaft stub and into the flywheel opening. Index the holes, flywheel to pressure plate. At the top of the block casting there is a inverted u cutout where the bellhousing bolts to the transmission. This is the access port to tightrn and install the pressure plate bolts. , turn the crank to rotate the engine and install the pressure plate bolts one at a time thru this access cut out. When you are all done grab the input stub alignment shaft , the clutch should spin freely. Now with your pry bar reverse the operation and remove the head nuts from between the fingers and the pressure plate body. Same safety precautions. Install your transmission with about 4 bolts equally spaced. Try to depress the clutch pedal if it just goes a little way and stops, If it does, its like Bruce says you have an early trans case for an early 32-35 clutch. Your case might work with a 9" pp but the throw arms of the 10" pressure plate hit the side of the case as they swing. Look at the serial number in that little rectangle above the inspection window and post it , from that number you can identify the year of the trans case. You have all the right clutch parts, I'm agreeing with Bruce that you have an early case and the parts don't like each other.

Let us know what your results are.

 

Just a question . . . was looking at your pictures again and it just looks like the release levers are too far compressed when it is bolted up. Do the steel parts of the disk correctly slide into the ID of the clutch ring? Is it possible that the clutch ring (the big friction surface) is hanging up on the steel/spring section of the disk - causing the levers to go too far down? Is it in backwards? It just looks a bit funny to me.

I'll bolt up my 10" clutch to the flywheel out in the shop today and post pictures this evening.

Dale

 

is the clutch disc install right with the springs toward the trans and if your trying to the compress clutch with the motor out of the car as stated above you need big arms

 

The clutch is facing the proper way. Im sure it is. Im going to install it today using ****'s advice, ill keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the help so far.

 

**** is a walking encyclopedia who has done it all. Listen!
One more thing...if parts remain obdurate, I've got the Ford clutch book here with specs on original disc thickness (and thickness used for PP setup) and dimensions of where the fingers should be when properly adjusted. It is always possible something is wildly out of spec.
If everything goes together right, stop anyway and examine fingers against a straightedge across housing; some imported or badly rebuilt PP's will have all fingers at random levels, which will cause you great joy once you are running.

 

I don't mess with "latemodel" flatheads much, but I do know the flywheels are different than the earlies. Since the ring gear is in a different spot, could the disk surface be spaced differently as well? And maybe you've got a late flywheel in your early engine?

Do you trust the guy who put your engine together? Has it been in a running car?

 

Well, I think we got it whipped! With my fabricated ****** mount, it keeps my pedals a bit further away and lower than the stock location. The linkage was not long enough to fully engage the pressure plate arms. I was thinking that with the motor/****** installed in the car, i could use my size 11 boot to shove the clutch arm forward. Well, as stated before, i was very wrong. Thanks everyone for your help, I really appreciated it!

 

good to hear you got it figured out..