Flathead V-8's. What do I need to know?

My kids and I are embarking on building a traditional hot rod. I would seriously like to power it with a flathead V-8, but have no personal experience with them at all. What do I need to know when looking for one? I have several '50's era cars in my area that have "running" flatties in them and would like to know what to look for, any trouble spots that may be common, etc. Also, I would like to know what a price range might be for a stock, running flathead and for engines that don't run but are not stuck. Which ******s might bolt up to the engines would be helpful too. I know this is asking a lot, but you all seem to know everything about these engines, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

Thanks,

Andy

 

Pricing varies in different parts of the country. Flatties left in fields with the carbs uncovered are likely to have cracks if it gets cold there. I personally prefer the 1949 thru 1953 motors where the water leaving the bolck, to the radiator, exits the front of the heads. Flatties were prone to cracking, on the left bank prior to the change in valve angles in 1945. Most have small cracks from head bolt holes that are not a problem but cracks from the valves to the cylinders may be expensive to repair and cracks along the pan rails are usually fatal.

The purchase of a flathead should include a refund if the engine has fatal cracks. Most can be seen after the removal of the heads but manufluxing the block is the best way to ***ure you have a crack free block. I've seen running flattie engines for anywhere from $500 to $1500.

Jim

 

Blown is correct. Those are the best years. Then you can also fill your head with Mercury Cranks, trips etc.

I have a "French" block flathead. All this means its like the 49-53 block, but the blocks are much newer. My block is from 64 and was rebuilt in 91. I got it as a crate engine. French used them in their military vehicles.
They are cleaner castings and in theory can be hopped up more.

Those blocks are around but not cheap.

There is a guy New York State that advertises in Hemmings. Reliable, affordable.

I say buy at least a long block done, I knew little about them and didnt want to take the time to learn how. Oddly enough I got mine on ebay an was not unhappy with the purchase.

I have seen flatties from $1000 to $3300. Depends on how much you want like every engine.

Mine is stock internally, I have offy heads and intake and hand made exhaust. So it may not pull stumps, but it does go down the road.
Next go around I would put a T5 on it for fun factor.

 

From my experience about 60-80% of Ford Flathead blocks are cracked beyond use or repairable only at great expense. If you by a engine have the block degreased and pressure checked before purchase.

 

Flathead ford V-8's were the thing----Until the overheads came out (SBC-SBF) in the mid 50's, then, MOST flatheads took a back seat to the modern motors.
In 1955, I had my 49 ford motor built to the hilt at 3/4 race standards (at that time),
back then, spending 500+ bucks on a flathead was the going price, & I was a happy camper, however, later that year a friend bought a new 1955 Chev. with power pack, that meant 4 bbl carb. & twin exhausts with a 265 cid motor, my flathead was bored & stroked to 275 cid (&all the other goodies), when we raced, I took him in first gear, but shifting to 2nd gear he went right on by me!!
Later, another 49 Ford with a big olds motor, did the same thing, I felt that my 500 bucks was a waste of money & sold the car in 1957 & bought a new 57 Ford.
If you are planning on just putting around town or short distances, SURE, build a flattie!-----BUT, if you plan on going out of state or cross country, take into consideration the non availability of flathead parts, and/or componants.
This is the delema only you can answer,---------Good luck--------Don

 

The only two shure fire methods of purchase would be if you saw it running in a vehicle with no apparent problems & no water leaking out or into the oil pan(Catagory 1) and/or a block that has already been cleaned with magnetic particle inspection (Magnaflux) and/or pressure test of the water jackets for cracks (Catagory 2). A complete engine could go as high as $1000 or more if it falls into the first catagory and a bare block would be in the $500 to $800 in the second catagory. Keep in mind that a bare block that has been tested has already had a lot of work done to insure it's serviceable for overhaul. If it comes with all the parts then it would be more dollars more than likely, especialy if it has a 4-inch stroke Mercury crankshaft.

Engines stored outside will likely need several cylinders sleeved due to corrosion from water entry. Some may need all 8 cylinders sleeved if it was setting too long in a harsh environment. Going rate for sleeves is somewhere near $100 per cylinder.

These prices are variable as to location as was mentioned before. Less cracks from freezing in warm climates. I picked up one for free here in San Anton but it had cracks for the other reason. It got too hot and cracked through the valve bocket on one cylinder. It's still repairable but I'll have to sleeve the whole block for various reasons.

 

being a newb to flatheads as well, this thread is making me seriously consider other engine alternatives.

 

Haha!!! I just thought the same thing for a second. We put a new 8ba in my '52 Merc with T-5 behind it and I haven't had a chance to drive it yet. I am hoping to tonight which is awesome but you always have that "what if" in the back of your head with these engine I guess.

I don't think they are any less reliable then other engines when dialed in but on the off chance that something does happen, call a flat bead truck because the parts are not at Auto Zone. But damn, it's worth it because they are cool a can be. Wise men said that they took people to and from work for 21 years so they have to be a pretty good motor. Just do your research.

 

For all the horror stories about them, they are really reliable little workhorses, many of which have done countless hours of hard work under horrible conditions for many years. Just rebuild them with quality components, paying attention to good information from knowledgable guys that have experience with them and you'll have a cool hot rod engine that's just as reliable as Joe Blow's SBC. They are not mystical mechanical enigmas to be feared and avoided. They are just a V-8 engine, and a damn fine one at that!

As for what you need to know? Just how to read. Get a few books on them, Bruce Lancaster's book is about to be released, I suggest you purchase it. Do a search, there are countless threads on here with priceless information in them. Talk to other Ford guys that build them, their insight is most important. And last but not least, don't believe the hype... "they're all cracked junk!" "they overheat contantly!" "you can't find parts for them anywhere!" "they're exhorbitantly expensive to build!"

 

The reason I asked about this is because I have a chance to buy a '51 Mercury 4 door that has a running Flathead in it now for about $2500.00 and was thinking about parting out the rest of the vehicle.

Andy

 

Why not just hot rod/customize the 51 Mercury???

 

If you decide to tackle the engine rebuild yourself, a good reference book is NOSTALGIA: REBUILDING AND MODIFYING THE FLATHEAD FORD V8, by Ron Holleran. It has recently been reprinted, and is available from:
Bill Boomer
802 Morris Cres.
Regina SK. S4X-2L7
Canada.
billboomer@accesscomm.ca

As I recall, the price incl. shipping to US is USD27.00

Good luck, and have fun with your project whichever way you decide to go.

 

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've run my French block flattie w/5-speed and 8" rear w/3:50 gears up and down the east coast and at speed (75mph) for 6 years. I have a 49-53 distributor w/Pertronix conversion, run stock heads, 255 cube, 2 deuces, Elgin cam, adj lifters, headers and duals. Maybe it's the fact of the 5-speed, reducing rpms - I don't know. But, if you go with quality parts and know a competent builder, you won't win any drag races against OHVs but you will sound, look, and run great!

 

These engines tend to run hot and don't tolerate being overheated very well. The exhaust p***ages run long distances and make lots of turns in the block. If your coolant runs low, the heads trap superheated steam and that can cause cracks in the cast iron. Mine was cracked from the exhaust port to the exhaust valve seat. Got it pinned and inserted a new valve seat. You'll never get alot of horsepower from these engines, even if you add a blower you'll probably top off at less than 250
horses.

All that being said, I wouldn't trade mine for anything, and if it blew, I'd replace it with another flattie. It's a love thing.

Nobody says "wow" at a SBC.

 

Mike says some truths here. I had fun figuring out why mine ran hot even though the newer block design. They arent great on gas, 10 to 15 if your lucky, however they are reliable (Ford did use them for some time) especially for something like this. Driving. I was going to look at a 1 ton 53 Ford Pickup, neat one ton, but would not think of pulling anything with the old flattie in it. As a driver, wouldnt think twice about taking it across country.

 

i've been working on a 59a block for my chopped (real) `32 5w. for over a year now.
i must say that the only good reason for running a flathead is just being a stubborn traditionalist.
it's the most you will spend to go so slow.
G.M. fixed everything that was wrong with the flathead in 1955 with the chevy 265 c.i. v8.
an engine that fits in the place of the flathead like it was designed to. puts out 50% more power in it's stock form, doesn't weigh hardly any more.
and most you find won't be cracked.
the flathead has too many water pumps, and not enough exhaust ports or main bearings.
good luck, if you insist.

 

The Mercury engine would be a good one as they have a 4 inch stroke so instead of 239 CID like the Ford the Mercurys were 255 CID. One more plus with the Mercury is that it has the earlier type water pumps that make mounting to a hot rod easier. The Mercurys had a reputation as being just a little bit better than the Ford. Mercury blocks and especially cranks were sought after as performance upgrades in the heyday of the Flathead.
Chevy guys like to bring up the fact that the flatty just could not compete with the with the small block and it was dethroned with it's debut in 1955. While this may have some truth the V8 Ford was the undisputed king of performance in the 30s-40s- to mid 50s. In it's later production years it had serious compe***ion from Caddillac, Oldsmobile, and Chysler. Even against these early OHV engines the Ford still remained the top performance engine simply because it was more affordable and had great aftermarket support.
Lets compare two vehicles bone stock. One a 1950 Chevrolet Deluxe Coupe with a 216 and 3 speed, The second a 1950 Ford Custom Coupe with a 239 and three speed. Both vehicles will crank and run very well. The Chevy 6 is peppy until about 60 mph. 70 mph for an extended length of time is terminal for a 1950 216. She'll run 50 mph all day but at 70 the babbit rod six will give it up. With the Ford you know you have a V8. It is like driving a later model car. You can keep up with traffic no problem. Compared to the Chevy, its night and day.

 

For all the people that ***** about Flatheads running hot: Timing, timing, timing.

 

Taking the path of least resistance isn't always the most rewarding either! If you love it, do it! No one can argue with the sound of a flathead V8. It's the original "Don" of all other V8's!

 

Yes one degree either way is a huge player. Part of that learning curve

 

I would love to hear a 1917 Chevy V8 though......

 

Huh?

 

60 - 80%, come on now. That is a bunch of BS. I've taken many apart and I would say 10 - 15% is more like it. And they don't all overheat if properly built and tuned. I've got probably 60,000 miles on mine. It's in a 39 with a totally original stock radiator - no pressure cap. It will run 180 all day long. And with an overdrive, I get over 20mpg on the highway. Go for it.

 

I think that people forget this motor was in production for over 20 years. A SBC can be unreliable if you don't pay attention to the rebuild

 

You're not the first person to say that, but I feel like it's saying "The personal computer fixed everything that was wrong with the typewriter."

They each had their time and place.

 

I just got my first flathead. 21 stud! Fast? Maybe not, but so far its fun!

Later, Bill

 

Stay away from those cheap foriegn made valve covers, and you'll be alright.

 

That's funny

 

Seems the initial buy has a big bearing on how you go. It gets expensive rebuilding ( figuring you have a problem, finding it, fixing it, i.e. re- sleeve etc.). What initially LOOKED like a silk purse in reality can be a sow's ear.
The Tardel/ Bishop book 'How to build a Traditional Ford Hot Rod' covers these scenarios briefly.

 

All in what you like. Very relaxing for me to spend some time working on one of mine.