I got a question along the same lines... Kinda. I bought a "429" that supposedly came out of a 70 LTD station wagon. Bought it in the dead of night. When I got it home and gave her a closer look I saw the numbers 460 cast into the block. I know that 429/460 are the same block and the only difference is the stroke, but why is the block cast with 460 on it. It's got really nice D0ve heads with HUGE ports, it's a very nice block non the less, but I'm wonderin' if I got ****ered into the old "Swapperoo". Does that casting mean anything?
Doesn't matter. I might be mistaken (again ) but I think that '460' was cast into many 385 series blocks, 429 or 460. Check out the casting number above the starter. Pull the pan to see if you have a four bolt block and to check out if you've got a 429 or 460 crank in it. As long as its not already bored .030 over and there are no cracks in the castings your all set to build a torque monster. -Bigchief.
Thanks Bigchief, I really wanted to put a 429 into my Falcon G***er, but wtf, If it's a 460, then she gets a 460! Thanks again, Marz.
The blocks are the same.The 429 you have is just a non-stroked 460 (as opposed to destroked). To figure out If your 70 LTD (p***enger car) block is a 1970 429, look in the lifter valley for a casting number of C8VE or C9VE or D0VE or similiar (1968,69,70 castings were used interchangably). A (block) casting number of D0OE-B will be the desirable CJ,SCJ,PI block. (I think The Lincolns were first to use the C8VE cast and built as 460s in 68) Not All 69/70 heads are the same. Early heads(before nov 69) used stamped steel rockers and screw in studs with guide plates (the rockers are straight off of Boss 302/351). this allows use of a mechanical cam (two thumbs up). All heads made after nov 69 used a "positive stop"/shouldered - screw in stud which are non adjustable. but they are easily converted to adjustable. The best of the best 429 heads are generally casting D0OZ - - H these are a****st the highest compression,biggest breathing 429 heads Ford produced. Intake valves are 2.24 inchs. The (intake) ports measure about 2 1/8th by 2 7/8 Generally, P***enger cars weren't given these high performance heads (but there were a few exceptions) the D0VE heads are an excellent second choice as the ports are slightly smaller which works better for street/strip use (as opposed to full compe***ion). they make more torque at lower rpms. At least A few P***enger cars rolled out the doors with D0VE heads at better than 11 to 1 compression ratios. These cars would have a good chance of being the handful of 429s that were supplied with (GM) Rochestor carbs and a matching Dual Plane intake (cast iron). General rule of thumb is, if the p***enger car came with a rochestor carb, there could be some valuable goodies underneath it.
Actually it was the other way around. The Legendary 428 CJ was built from existing 428 Police interceptor and 390 GT parts. The Police Interceptor 428 came first. The 428CJ was built closely to Police Interceptor specs. The CJ shared most of the P.I. parts............................ and the P.I.s had more grunt In the late 60s -70. Mostly due to the cam specs/choice. chock up one for benzine440
Coincidentally there is one for sale on Craigslist in St Louis. I think the Missouri Hiway Patrol bought some of these. http://stlouis.craigslist.org/car/114761691.html Mine did not have the vinyl top. It did have a tan version of that brocade upholstory. Unfortunately I don't have $2500 to spare at the moment. That ****s.
been here on journal for three yrs don't need intro, i just changed names is all.longer than you. I just don't ask many questions.but i read alot of good ones. and learn from them.
we had a 58 Ford fairlane with a 352 police inteceptor motor my stepdad loved. since you guys know so much about police packages what was the difference in this engine and a regular 352? the car was black and white I have a photo here but it was painted in the standard pattern not black fenders white doors kinda thing. thanks
In 69 Ford and Mercs Intermediate models ONLY were available with a standard and Ram Air 428 rated at 335 hp & 440 torque. In 70 that engine was called the 428 CJ with the same specs; also available in Ram Air trim. And as mentioned there were speciality packages sold to the cops. The 66-7 T Bird was available with a 345 HP 428. Full size F & M had the 428 in 66-68 as 340 or 345 HP versions. Interesting to note that the CJ version was less potent than grannys LTD! I remember a 428 Mustang from Tasca Ford at the drags back then. It was never a serious contender as it had a hard time hooking up. It had Boss 428 painted on it; was a Boss version built or was it just s****ing the compe***ion? They also ran a Boss 429 which didnt do much better.
I meant no insult but I have been seeing a lot of new folks posting without any intros and have gotten a bit of additude from a couple after I caught them. It seems like a lot of the oldtimers dont care any more. So I guess I shouldn't either. Hell when I started coming on here If you started posting without any kind of intro, You got stomped on good. Dawg
Your both off the mark. Yes the 428PI was out before the CJ....but the *production* CJ/SCJ motors were not based on them and actually used very few PI parts. Its like saying a '70LT1 350 is based on the original '55 265. .....they look very similar but when it comes down to it they're not even close. The 428CJ motor shares 428PI rods and has an iron version of the '66 428PI (originally aluminum) intake manifold. Thats where *any* similarity ends to the PI motor other than trinkets common across all FE's. A stock CJ/SCJ motor uses the same hydraulic camshaft as the '66-'68 390GT motor. Thats it. Block, heads, crank, rods (SCJ uses 427 LeMans rods), intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, windage tray, carb, distributor, and many other items are 428 CJ/SCJ only. Its a longshot to say that the production 428CJ/SCJ motors were truely based on the 428PI motor. They were not. Now, if your talking about FOMOCO development mules (Bob Tasca's initial work included) thats a whole different story. THOSE first development motors were a combination of PI short blocks, PI intake, 427 heads (from the W-code motors), 390GT exhaust manifolds and custom ground camshafts (NOT 390GT cams). Our shop is rebuilding/restoring the original motor from one of the Cougar 427/428CJ GTE test mules. It is not only the first 428CJ GTE car, it was also one of the first 427 GTE factory test mules. It was actually the third prototype and has a July 4th 1967 build date as a 427. It was tested as a 427 car for some time then became the first 428CJ test mule. It was the red magazine test car for Car Craft and Super Stock Magazine in Mid 1968. This car is do***ented six ways to Sunday by Ford, the national Cougar and Mercury Clubs and by Marti Auto Works. We've been doing FE's a long time....... Its tough to split hairs with Fords because anything went back then .....that why I think its gonna be cool to see what Benzine's papers show as far as engine internals on these "special" CHP cars. -Bigchief.
All the motors you mentioned in the begining of your post are 428CJ motors. Fords and Mercurys of that vintage shared engine codes (and engine names) regardless of body style or name plate. You had Thunderjets (standard 428's) Cobra Jets and Super Cobra Jets. For 1968 Q code (fifth digit in the VIN) was a standard 428. For the '68 model year R code was for the 428CJ motor (a mid year option that came out on April 1, 1968 heh, heh, heh). In 1969 and 1970 the Q-code was for a non Ram-air 428CJ and R code was the Ram-Air 428CJ. SCJ's were not coded in the VIN...but if you've got the door tag you can tell. If you ordered a 3.90 or 4.30 rear axle you automatically got the Drag Pack or Super Drag Pack giving you the sweet SCJ motor and oil cooler package.....for a rediculous price of something like $7.30 over the cost of the optional gearing cost! The 428CJ/SCJ motors were under rated by Ford. Granny's LTD grocery getter or even Barny's 428PI police car would have its hands full trying to run down a Mustang or Torino with a CJ in it. CJ's are closer to 400hp in relatively stock trim. NHRA caught on real quick and refactored the cars to 410hp for the '69 season and they're still competative today. I think they've been recently refactored to 390hp. -Bigchief.
428PI - C6OE-9425-H (cast aluminum) 428CJ/SCJ - C8OE-9425-C (cast iron) These are very very similar intakes. -Mike.
Tell me about it! When I was playing games with my SCJ I tried out a 427 Side Winder and an old Offy single plane. Putting the stocker on and keeping the gaskets in place is definitely a two person job! -Bigchief.
I want to thank you all for contributing to this thread. I'm looking for personal experiences, but not to stir up the usual contentiousness so be gentlemen when you go swinging those part numbers around. You could put someones eye out. Now you expect me back up what I was saying? What the...? Why I never...! My copcar file is packed in one of these brown unlabled file boxes that I'm looking at. It's in there somewhere so give me a day or two. Feel free to post any pics. I'd like to see one dressed out.
I tried a sidewinder on my SCJ too - I liked it & just barely had enough adjustment on the shaker so it centered up in the hole again - ended up putting a PI intake on (traded the sidewinder for it & got some cash too! )
We tried all kinds of stuff with my SCJ.....always came back to running the original Holley 735 and stock intake for best over-all 1/4 mile times and ****-O-Meter dyno feel. Ford really had the package sorted out.....other that the rediculous choice of casting the CJ intake in iron instead of aluminum. The 427 Sidewinder with my combo woke up the last 1000RPM and gave me about 300 more RPM on top (to 6800) but the loss on the low end didn't make it worth what I gained up top so off it came. I run a Crower 297HDP. (236/244 @.050" lift .591"/.588" lift on a 112 degree lobe center). Its alot of cam but its really worked out fine so far......but now that I've got the stock exhaust manifolds back on the car (****** Super Comps rusted out and I'm absolutely sick of doing header gaskets on that car) its time for a more modern grind with less duration. -Bigchief.
I put a Holley 830AD on it & it really woke it up on the ****-o-meter. Really wish I had that car back...
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