Here's an excerpt from Mike Bishop and Vern Tardel's book, "How to Build a Traditional Ford Hotrod (VERY much worth buying I might add): "The original Model A wishbone is too short to be used on an A-V8 front end, even with the Model A frame. The 1932 wishbone is too long, but the 1933-34 wishbone, at 47 inches from the center of the ball to the center of one of the perch pin holes, it just right." Keep in mind, they didn't split their wishbones and they used a 32 K-member. EDIT: THEY ACTUALLY USED A 32 UNSPLIT WISHBONE....THE BOOK MEASUREMENTS ARE WRONG.....av8 POSTED A CORRECTION
I believe they are symmetrical, but I believe in putting old stuff back the way it useta was. That article is from a book put out by Rod Action in the early 70's--it also contains the huge brake article posted in tech and a trans identification article--it's a good chunk of an early Ford encyclopedia. I have an extra--mebbe a HAMB auction someday.
Here's what I mean. I think the axle must be later than 1940 because the spindles were not round at the back. It will go on '35-'36 wishbones. The hole is about .30 from one side and .45 from the other. It had been separted when I bought it from Raven61.
Looks like the ole' guy on the line had a date that night! I think a couple of mine are a little off, I'd have to look again. That's something to take into consideration.
On those holes, stick pieces of steel rod into all four perch and kingpin holes, and since you are unlikely to find any rods that actually fit perfectly in your junk pile, use little wedges to push all four against the backsides of their holes. Now you can sight along rods and see what's what. Quite possibly the forged lumps are off and holes are right on, if not you can figgerout best way to use axle, forward, backward, or on Ebay...
hmmm......some of us are working on a large Stromberg Tech and we're a little afraid to post the pic.....for fear of losing them..... wonder what happened?
Flathead Youngin', I have read in another thread that Ryan's server provider had a crash and lost a lot of the pictures from the various posts. Ryan is still working on the problem. That's what I remember, but I'm over 40 so don't trust my memory all the time. If someone else has a different answer of the missing pictures please inform us. Thanks. This is a good post and its one of the many I've bookmarked. I may end up printing this one so I can keep it better.
I had saved much of the info from this thread, pics and all on my home PC. I was hoping to come up with a do***ent that would provide all of this with graphics. I have been carrying it to swap meets alreay. If I can get it all in one place I will do so and post a tech. When is tech week any way??? I kinda miss it.
I don't care to repost them........I have all the pics and probably more by now.... It may take me a day or so, too many irons in the fire right now.... Server crash, oh well, we'll rebuild....
I was just measuring up some parts today for the 36. Im removing the stock front end and replacing it with a CE drop I beam at 47 inches wide.. Im using 40 ford bones (2 1/4 perch) to suit the axle. My bones will be split but just enough which will obviously move the front spring perch inwards. I will have to heat and bend this back to square, but when thats done whats the best reverse eye spring width to use??
Are you running spring in front? Regardless, do a mock up, and then give CE a call before you start heating and bending. They stock several size springs and you may want to shoot for what they offer. Their reverse main springs are now $38, 10 more than when I got one last year. I think they have pretty good customer service as far as helping you out. Their tech ph # is 319-643-2655.
Thanks for the info on the CE main leaf. I will have to heat and bend regardless to bring the mount points back parallel to each other, just thinking out load..
Bruce- I'd love your tech input on ford rear axles- You know which year Banjo rear ends to run or are too weak....
I've never been down the heat and bend my spring perch road.....before you do that, you may want to call posies (sp??), CE or Pete and Jakes and see if you can get a custom spring......if you're off a 1/4", that will shift the body center line in relation to the running gear center line.......not saying is can't be done... Bruce or others may be a bit more inclinded to step in on this one.......I'm not the most experienced......I'm just good at collecting tech data!
I can't say what spring you'll need--process would be to bend shackle area back out straight and parallel, then measure and see if you are close to a stock length. I would say there are 3 widths of spring in front--'35-6, '37-41, '42-8. You could pretty well estimate the amount of difference by comparing perch hole difference up above... When dearching a Ford spring, the eye-to-eye length increases, making shackles more vertical and allowing sway. Having a slightly narrower main leaf made to put shackles back around 45 degrees is a handling trick, useful even on Fords with sway control (panhards '42-8, various odd systems used earlier). Basic setup of the Mexican road-race '48 Merc, for instance, involved reversed eyes, shorter spring, AND the factory sway and roll bars. You might want to ***emble car with a temporary stock spring, lower it to desired height by weighting it down, then order your new spring with main leaf length based on what you can actually see and measure.
Rear axles: Basically three flavors, though there are lots of detail variations. 1928-most 1932 Fords, A-B axle. Quick ID is ROUND flange where torque tube goes. These lack straddle mount bearing for pinion gear (as do 99% of all automobile axle desigs, I might add...) and so are presumably weaker than '32-48 with this extra bearing. These were, however, strong enough to race, as most quickies into the late 1950's were Model A based, and these things made it into the 9's at the strip... Late 1932-1934, Model 18 rear. ID: Hex flage for TT, all variants used the swept-forward spring design. These have straddle mount pinion,, are VERY similar to later rears except for bearing size variations and such. Main disadvantage of this model is limited gear availability. Most stock ones will be 4.11. 1935-48, the standard one really. Straddle mount, parts easy to find. All of this year span are essentially the same, but lots of variations in minor parts. Driveshaft and spline changed, but adapter sleeves exist. Spider/axle gears changed, but can be swapped in sets. Axles and axle housings came in several widths, but everything can interchange as long as you have or change to spiders matching axles. '42-47 pickup are open drive, have oxcart style springs. Gears are available from at least 3.2 area to about 4:88--5.12 for circle track, but common real world finds will almost all be 4.11 or 3.78. A distant third place in findability would be 3.54. New gears and bearings are expensive--look for an axle that has the ratio you want and is in good shape--many have survived needing little more than gaskets and cleaning. You could pour $1000 into a bad one realdamnfast, so look for a good one. Width: Lots of minor variation, but 1928-41 are all pretty close, '42-8 is a couple inches wider. I do not have numbers on wheel flange width or spring perch width--I don't own examples of all, and lots of mine are dis***embled or really deep in the junkpile. There must be people out here who have examples they can measure at hand--let's put together a chart of flange-to-flange and shackle pin widths so this post covers both ends of the car.
Great info for any of us !! I think Vern Tardel and Mike Bishop had some more detailed me***ures on rearaxels in ther AV8 book. I remember he did an article back in the 90's in American Rodder on rearaxle swap in a 32 ch***ie. Mabe Mike can fill inn the needed dimensions here. The soapbox is yours Mike. I can look up the article and book if he does not read this. I've also got a 34 and a 46 Merc axle that I can get flange to flange me***ures from. Any known variations on Merc versus Ford, front and back, Bruce?? Paul
Bruce, addition to your post on rear ends. Here is added info: 28-32B axle tubes have smaller diameter bells and will not interchange with later center sections. Model A housings have spring over axle perches where 32 have spring behind axle perches. 32 axle housings have radius rod tabs parallel to backing plate flange. 32-4 V8 axle tubes same size, differ in radius rod mounts 32 parallel to backing plate flange 33/4 radius rod mount point toward drive shaft. 35-48 banjo center goes to supported pinion design. 35/6 rear axle tubes, heavy oval radius rod mounts point toward drive shaft. Now the catch, 35-some 37 housings use a smaller width carrier bearings than later 37-48 housings so if you are switching housings and banjos it is important to measure carrier bearing width. 37-40 axle tubes look the same 39/40 change spider gears and axle tooth count, wider carrier bearing 41 axle tubes have double spring perch hanger holes. 42-8 axle tubes widest usually have part# in spring hanger . 42-7 pickup are spotted by the parallel spring axle pads welded to housing. ****
****, please confirm this: I had always known the late-32 housings (the so-called V8 style) to have angled radius rod mounts like the 33s did.
Yep--B rear has straight mounts/bent rods, 18 rear has slanted mounts/straight rods. This is useful because you can see the difference by sticking your head under the back of the car, while the TT flange is really hard to get a look at.
I learned this the HARD WAY. Bought apair of 32 rear rods on eBay. Turned out to be straigt. Bad picture in auction posting did not show this. My axle has straight mounts. Means I have a B rear then. I wonder if this is a defined trouth for export cars sold new here in Europe? Anyone have some info/experineces on this. Paul
European export car sources depended on import taxes for different origins--European '32's could be of British, US, maybe Canadian origin, sometimes sent out as complete cars, sometimes sent in pieces through a continental ***embly plant. I think (not certain) that German Ford was still just ***embly, not actually making most parts of cars. Smaller countries with no local car industry often had no barriers, so got Fords from multiple sources--I think both British and USA Fords exist in Scandinavian countries. I would think rear axles would match USA useage. 1932 18 type rears are quite scarce--introduction was late in the production year. They aren't in even the last '32 parts book. You won't find many.
Thanks Bruce Additional to the pair of straigt 32's I bought, ( 1932 according to seller. He was very determined that they where. He claimed that all 4-banger 32's had straight mount and all V8 had angeled mounts. I now know this is not correct), I have a pair from a 34. These are identical in length and all other me***ures. In order to fit any of these to my ch***ie I intend to cut and bent them just in front on the axle housing mount. This will make the them align with the mounting hole on the TT without any other modifications. An easy swap. I have straightened out the rear crossmember in order to lower the car. The pair of "original" bent 32's 'I have will give to little clearence to the frame. These are some kind of homemade modified ones. 32 in the back and welded into som newer front parts???? The modified straight ones will give the needed clearence. This was a nice discovery since I wanted to use bones mounted to the TT and not split ones on the frame. Will compare the original bent ones klazurfer have on his 32 to the modification of straight ones I intend to use and take some pics, if anyone has any interest. **** Nice additional info for ID of the various kinds. Bruce You are right about the variety of Scandinavian sold cars. Some Brittish 32's where sold here as 33 or even 34 models I've been told. These cars had a lot of different parts compared to US 32's, like the body style and the dash panel. Dash panels in these cars are similar to US 33/34's. Glove compartment and all. Paul
The British book on the history of deuces has lots of info on British and European variants, including long wheelbase limos, '33-4 deuces (triples? Quads??), and different bodies...I think it said the last known factory deuce was made in '35...Denmark ***embly?? Gotta go look that up... Love wierd variants of Ford stuff...
Oh, yes--did you see **** S's article in Street Rod Builder on Deuce variants? He had a German radiator badge that was red or black (wth is happening to my memory??) instead of Ford blue!
"The British book on the history of deuces" OK-- poured enough coffee into my memory cells to get ignition... "'32 Ford, the Deuce"...Tony Thacker...1984-85...now hard to find and running 150--200 dollars! Grab one if you can, lots of obscure info and racing history.
The Jalopy Journal
