Hot Rods Ford Model “A” Banger with a T-5 Five Speed Transmission

Two different T-5 installs one in a stock frame one in a tube frame I made for a T RPU. Both transmissions are 4 wheel drive applications. The stock frame is better suited for the S-10 4x4 trans. The shorter trans is Jeep 4x4.

A lot more info:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/jeep-t5-trans-in-the-torquetube.256226/

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Get yourself over to the "Fordbarn" Early V8 The link is at the bottom of every page here.
Check around for V8COOPMAN.
He is on there frequently. He does get here once in a while.
Seems to be there, daily. ( haven't grasped member search list here yet, Slow learner. )
He has all the details you want or wish for, to make this happen the right way.
You can check the 'Search' column for posts and threads.
There are many.
Rule there is, after you register then post 10 times your are then allowed to send a message to anyone in the directory.
His info is top shelf, can talk part sources and ratios, with pics.
Or,,, Scanning a few pages will show talk of this topic.
The T-5 interest is Big there

That is one beautiful effort.
I'd be reluctant to cover it up

 

I have a Jeep T-5, 4x4 transmission in my banger Vicky with an enclosed drive line. The car has a Cragar/Miller OHV. My Cabriolet banger powered A has a Mitchell O/D with a hop up flathead A.
My '29 A Roadster has a TKO 5 speed behind a Schofield/ Miller OHV and an open drive line. I have done all three myself.
I like the T-5 conversion the best. I would never do Mitchell again...ever.
The TKO is hard to find parts for but I like it better than the Mitchell.
The driveability of the T-5 is the best...and that car is the heaviest. You need to pay attention to final drive ratio...tire size, rear diff gear ratio and OD ratio and engine horse power/cam selection or it won't pull itself down the highway in overdrive. The Vicky is going to get a QC rear end in the near future.
Bangers are fun and can achieve V8 performance to a point.
Hopefully this helps and PM me for questions

 

Bump for all the great info.

 

We stuck a local T5 behind a pretty stock flathead banger, with open Holden diff (3.08) and ran 100.421 mph flying mile at Lake Gairdner on the Salt. I love em.

 

I have just completed the installation of a Jeep T5 in my 1931 RPU with original motor. When I first started out doing this upgrade, I contacted Larry (winduptoy) as he already had documented a fair bit. Based on what he told me, the drawings and pictures that he provided, I believe I have a very successful transition. You can see in the pictures that I have installed a KatoKing shifter. Larry had problems with his and so I have reinstalled the original Jeep shifter for the time being. This is a fairly long read and if you are using hydraulic brakes, a lot of it does not apply, but it is here for the taking.


The Easy and Definitive T5 Upgrade in your Model A 4 Banger

This is best done with the body off.
It assumes mechanical brakes are being retained.
A 1982-86 Jeep T5 less the transfer case is being used.

Remove all brake rods.
Remove center cross member by grinding and removing rivets.
Remove e-brake cross shaft.
Remove e-brake handle.
Remove brake cross shaft.
Unbolt rear spring
Remove clam shell
Slide rear end assembly out from under back of car
Stand rear end on jack stands with torque tube vertical
Remove axles. A good puller needed. Mitchell sells one.
Remove radius rods from backing plates and torque tube
Remove speedometer housing
Remove torque tube
Remove speedo gear and bearing from front of torque tube
Remove transmission
Remove clutch and flywheel
Cut torque tube approximately 7” from rear flange
Remove 6.5” from front half of tube
Machine back ½” of front tube to fit in back portion of tube
Be sure to keep proper alignment of radius rod mount and flange bolts.
A total of 7” of length now removed from tube. Weld tube.
Remove driveshaft and pinion gear from banjo using Mitchell pinion puller.
Remove 7” from rear of driveshaft about 7” ahead of pinion gear.
Align drive shaft pieces and weld.
Install pinion gear back into banjo using Mitchell installer tool.
Install torque tube over driveshaft and bolt to banjo.
Install new front bearing in torque tube and reinstall speedo gear.
Install speedometer housing.
Install new pilot bearing in flywheel.
Install ring gear on flywheel.
Install Burtz 30 lb. flywheel, torque to 55 lbs.
Install V8 clutch using disk from Vintage Precision.
Torque clutch bolts to 25 lbs.
Install Vintage Precision bell housing,
Machine T5 input shaft as per instructions from Vintage Precision.
Cut out rear mount from transmission.
With Jeep T5 complete less transfer case, install to bell housing.
Install Kato King adaptor to tail of T5.
Install front half of clam shell
Install rear end assembly back into universal joint.
Install split part of clam shell.
Clamp in rear spring.
Weld 1/8” plate on ends of cross member.
Install cross member 2.625” rearward of original position.
Drill six 5/16” holes in frame and on each end of cross member.
Cut center from brake cross shaft and modify as per diagram.
It is imperative to keep the ends of the shaft where the bearing goes in alignment, I had three tries before I got it right. Perhaps mounting it to the frame before welding might help. I did not do this. I am posting this helpful hint from Larry. To help with the modification of the brake cross shaft I laid it on its side on a piece of 3/4" plywood. I 'captured' it in place with multiple dry rock screws....on each side and ends of the shaft in multiple places to make a 'jig'. A set up so you can remove and set the cross shaft back in the same place with the same geometry. After the center was marked and cut out, the end pieces could be placed back on the jig and the dropped section tacked, holding the alignment, geometry and length of the original, just with a center drop now in place.
Remount brake cross shaft. One bolt will be under cross member.
Remove pin from e-brake shaft actuator, move actuator 4” to passenger side and weld.
Mount e-brake cross shaft.
Make mounting plate for e-brake handle as per diagram.
Mount e-brake plate and handle to T5.
Mount pedals to Vintage Precision pedal shaft.
Re-install brake rods
Be sure to check all fluids and grease fittings.

Parts highly recommended to upgrade Model A transmission to T5

Mitchell pinion puller/installer
https://mitchelloverdrives.com/mitchell-pinion-puller-kit/
Mitchell hub puller
https://mitchelloverdrives.com/mitchell-hub-puller/
Burtz lightened flywheel
https://burtzblock.com/products/flywheels
Vintage Precision bell housing
http://www.vintageprecision.com/products/bell_housings/index.html
Vintage Precision 9” clutch disk
V8 clutch pressure plate from speedway
Kato King Jeep to closed driveshaft adaptor (507-382-9415)
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/jeep-t5-torque-tube-adapter.1002913/
Jeep 1982-86 T5 transmission. (Shortest T5)
The Borg Warner T5 transmissions were standard shift five-speed transmissions found in 1982 to 1986 Jeep CJ models.

Warren

Diagram to modify brake cross shaft.


Diagram for e-brake handle mount.


picture of cross member end plates

Picture of cross member mounting


Picture of brake shaft


Brake shaft mounted


Picture of e-brake shaft


Picture of transmission with accessory parts


Picture of e-brake handle mounted

 

I am working on a source for a few parts.

If I can find them, I hope to be able to offer kits for both the S10 4x4 T5, and the Jeep 4x4 T5.

 

Wow…Thanks!

 

There are old, converted Borg Warner overdrives that come up for sale occasionally. There are a few versions of the conversions for the Model A. With a good strong banger engine you really need to use 4.11 gears for running up hills without so much down shifting. I don't mind using the stock transmission and having to double clutch. It comes as second nature to me.

 

@wuga Nice write up. Thank you for documenting!!!
Sorry that I guess I hadn't clearly communicated what I did to assist with modification of the brake cross shaft.

To help with the modification of the brake cross shaft I laid it on its side on a piece of 3/4" plywood.
I 'captured' it in place with multiple dry rock screws....on each side and ends of the shaft in multiple places to make a 'jig'. A set up so you can remove and set the cross shaft back in the same place with the same geometry. (sorry no pictures and I don't even have a spare cross shaft to duplicate this with) at the moment.
After the center was marked and cut out, the end pieces could be placed back on the jig and the dropped section tacked, holding the alignment, geometry and length of the original, just with a center drop now in place.

Larry

 

Thanks Larry, I have added your helpful hint to my document.
Warren.

 

Lots of info on putting a T5 in an A with a banger and retaining the torque tube. Anyone put a T5 in a Model B with a banger and retain the torque tube?

 

I have not installed a T-5 in a '32 B model but I would think that I would approach it by changing the B bellhousing half and cutting the back off the B oil pan so the B engine would accept an A bellhousing. Basically doing the same modifications to put a B engine in an A. Then it would be able to accept a number of options to adapt to the transmission. Build back and modify from there. I suspect that there would have to be additional transmission/bellhousing to frame mounts made or adapted
Sorry, trying not to steal the original thread, but this puts it back to the top

 

Look here for T5 adapter :

 

Buying the B truck wasn’t my plan originally. I had wanted a 30/31 Model A Tudor with plans for a hopped up Banger, juice brakes and a T5. I also knew there was plenty available to make the T5 happen with a torque tube. It seems the Model B is a whole other animal regarding a T5 and the torque tube.

With the research I’ve already done, I also think that going to an A bell housing would be the way to go. I particularly like Vintage Precision’s bell housing. I do have a BB bell housing and could use Steve Serr’s adapter plate but prefer the other approach. The T5 is a little ways off as I have a complete hydraulic brake setup to install. Not to mention installing a different B engine in the truck, 12 volt conversion with turn signals, etc…

 

A mate went through 5 banger blocks till he found a good one!

 

I was considering a Mitchel for my 41p/u and talked to them. I also thought there was no synchro for first. They explained the the o/d was a 3 position planetary gear set operated by a cable and could be "split shifted" in and out in every gear. When moving and going down to first, use the cable to move the mitchel to neutral and then move the trans into first under no load. Then drop the mitchel into which ever range you want. He said a lot of Model A guys do this and love it. Anyone interested should talk to Mitchel before deciding.

 

Wow, that’s not good!

 

Yes, split shifting is something that can be achieved with a Mitchell drive line OD, or other over drives as well, as far as that goes. It will give you six forward gears and two reverse. I split gears routinely while driving between 2nd direct, to 2nd over, 3rd direct and then 3rd over. Good for hill climbing.
My Mitchell experience details. I did this install in 2016...I have both the syncro Mitchell built transmission and OD in the same banger powered vehicle. This combination is over $5k out of pocket. A T-5 install can be done for way less...
You have to send Mitchell a transmission case. front bearing retainer and shift tower with the shifter removed. You DO NOT get the transmission back built with the parts you send them...or not in my experience. I sent them cherry parts but...
The transmission that they shipped me leaks. Leaks bad. They send an accessory fixture with plugs that goes in the front of the transmission to slow some of the leaks down. I know stock the transmissions leaked. The gear shafts leak too and the case I got back had case wear in the shaft bores, so it really leaked lube. Did I know I was supposed to disassemble a newly built transmission and seal it up...I do now. It has always popped out of gear under deceleration. I talked to Mitchell and they said they bush the shifter and sometimes the flashing from cutting them can be left on the end of them causing the shifter not make it all the way into the shift rail detents. I was instructed to pull the tower and clean them up. Still pops out of gear under deceleration...not right away, but eventually. Ultimate outcome of discussion with them...I own it, it's my problem...it must have been something I did.
I must also mention that if you place your hand on the transmission shifter, you can feel the shift lever move back and forth between acceleration and deceleration...I've been told 'that is normal'
The Mitchell OD comes with a lever shifter that is located adjacent to the transmission shifter when installed. The OD is in the drive line and mounted between the transmission and the differential...and it is after the ball mount behind the transmission. It moves up and down with the rear end movement. I drive this car A LOT. I drive dirt roads, poorly maintained dirt roads and I like to haul ass on them....the Mitchell OD pops out of gear from that monkey motion and I've had it pop out on occasion on some rough encounters on asphalt as well. I'm pretty sure it is my fault as well for the way I have my suspension set up...or lack of set up. The cheezy assed nylon washer for the lube filler plug leaked too in the Mitchell supplied driveline section as well as the case weeping. I used the recommended lube.
My personal experience with my first and last Mitchell transmission and Over Drive purchases. Your user experience may differ....

Larry

 

I'm sorry you had the problem; the thing that bothers me most is that your original parts weren't used. That's bad business. I used the T170 RTS in my p/u but I went through it. I thought the T5 was going to be more complicated and expensive and I can do the machining. The thing about the RTS trans is a good one that can be rebuilt is hard to find. I looked for over 3 mo. for a good 4th gear. I figure that I have about $2K in the trans plus the open drive/banjo rebuild... probably over 2K.

 

What it cost me. The Burtz 30 lb. flywheel, the pilot bearing, the V8 clutch assy., the Vintage Precision bell housing, the Jeep T5, machine work on the T5 input shaft, the Kato King shifter and closed driveshaft adaptor and shortening the driveshaft cost me a total of US$2900.00
If I had left the cross member in it's original location, I could have eliminated a great deal of work, but it was worth it.
Warren

 

For anyone who is interested, I teamed up with Dwight Bond and with his help and blessing am reproducing his tried and true T5 to hogshead adapter. For anyone not familar with this adapter it allows you to bolt a T5 transmission up to a AA truck bellhousing and use behind a model A engine or with a 36-52 Truck Hogshead bolt a T5 up to a V8 flathead. And the new revisions we done to the adapter lets it fit both the GM T5 case and the more common Ford style T5 case as well. I ordered a small run of 25 of them to test demand and already 8 of them are spoken for. Anyone who is interested please feel free to PM me. They are being machined now and I am set to take delivery of the first batch march 20th. I also sell the pedal pins for them as well for those of you who want to mount your stock pedals in stock location.

 

I assume the adapter could be used on a B block with a BB Truck bell housing as well?

 

Yes it could be.

 

Sounds like they know their target base and screw the ones who try to actually drive them. Cater to the pavement princesses.

 

I’m new to this message board.
In 1975, I bought a project 29 closed cab PU that John Pickle referred me to.
Sold all the SBC stuff, bought a 6 month lease old Toyota 20R w/5 speed. Installed Corvair Corsa front suspension Opel discs and spindles, Capri rack, 8” rear.
Due to one income, two children (daughters!), didn’t get to drive it until a year after moving to Oregon in 1992.
Drive it all the time weather permits. Reliable, silky trans, medium TRD cam, 390 Holley.
Sway bars front and rear.
My A hadn’t been stock since early’60s, so not a problem to not use a flathead, A motor.
All the footroom, and love a stick, automatics, not.

 

Wow, there sure is a bunch of great info here!
Don’t quit now..BACK TO THE TOP

 

A Boner, as you’re finding out, there are many combinations that will accomplish what you’re trying to do. Many variables go into the decision on how to do it, such as availability of parts, overall cost, simplicity, etc.

I went down this same path after I spontaneously bought a ‘29 Model A phaeton a few years ago. After getting it home we discovered that it had a freshly rebuilt banger in it, so decided to run it with a T5 behind it.

After much research, as you’re doing, I stumbled across an old Dwight Bond adapter which at the time was no longer being made. This made the decision easy and economical for me. I used an AA bellhousing, custom clutch, and an S-10 T5. Originally my plan was to convert the Model A rear end to open drive, but it turned out to be junk. I ended up using an 8” ford rear that a friend gave me for free. I did spring for a Boling Bros battery box, which includes the master cylinder mount, and allows the stock Model A pedals to be used.

This was my way of accomplishing the T5 installation, but of course there are many possibilities. I wish I could report on drivability, but the car isn’t on the road yet. Maybe this is the year though!

 

My thoughts - based entirely on living in another country driving a fairly stock rolling A chassis with a few brake and suspension tweaks and a T coupe body tall and proud upon it. With numbers.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rKgYZiPYgp4YEFg8AjJ-IMU8o/edit#gid=1208129397

Current configuration in my Coupe is a 3.27 in a stock A banjo rear end, running 600 x 19 Michelin DR tyres. Similar height to a 7.50 Firestone at 31".
Stock 3-speed A crash box, with around 80hp from the Brierley headed diamond B block. 0-74mph on half a mile of famous sand at which point rolling resistance and aerodynamics begin to limit the acceleration...
This setup gives me a cruising speed on the road of around 55-65mph (around 2-2300rpm) with speeds up to 70-75 (2500-2700rpm) easy enough where necessary. At which point the stock T Coupe visor is fluttering like a good'un. Torque is plenty enough to potter through town at 25-30 in top before a shift down is necessary - same with hills.

I bought a Columbia to go under the back but I've never gotten around to fitting it. Why? An extra complication for what is essentially a simple setup not far removed from stock.

Cross country journeys to events of maybe 300 miles or so are normally tackled on sweeping back roads, avoiding motorways for the sheer boredom of them. As long as I'm not getting in the way of trucks I'm happy enough.

 

After a long wait at the machine shop I finally got the "Dwight bond" T5 adapters done. I picked them up last Thursday and as of today I only have 6 left to sell. If anyone is interested in grabbing one I have them listed in the classifieds.