OK, I've looked as best I know how and can't find the "great thread" on here that tells how to set up your dropped front Model A axle. Can someone show me the way? I see how to set the front crossmember. Now how do you make sure the hair pins are set just right so that your axle is setting right? How do you set and check everything?
I just finished doing a dropped axle on my Model A tudor. I guess I don't understand were you are going with your question. Failing is mine I am sure but maybe a little more information would help. I do have a question or two for you. Why in the world do you need to change the cross member? This is certainly not "required" for a straight dropped axle swap on a Model A. Also you should not need to change hair Pins unless you have something else going on rather than just a dropped axle.
If we don't know anything about you (I don't stalk your threads) we won't know what you are starting with. The most simple way is to just unbolt the stock axle and bolt in the dropped one. Not enough info? Then we need more info as to what you are working with. Do you have a bare frame with nothing else on it?
I rebuilt a wrecked ch***is. Super Bell 5" dropped axle was bent so I put in a 4" dropped axle. I also installed a new front crossmember, raked at 5 or 6 degrees. The steering arms now hit the hair pins and the hair pins need to be adjusted so the back attachment fits right (it appears) about an inch I guess because of the change in axles. I had heard there was a really good post on here showing how to set up front suspensions so was looking for it.
Why would you move the hairpins instead of changing the steering arms? Where do they hit? Is the tie rod trying to go in the middle of the hairpins, or under them? Hairpins usually have adjustable clevises on the front to dial in your caster angle, so most guys mount the back end at a pleasing angle hanging a little below the bottom of the frame. You'll have to mock up your ch***is at approx ride height to see what is a pleasing (to the eye) angle. It usually is slightly uphill from axle to frame for the hairpins. To do a mock up most guys bolt everything together with just the main leaf of the spring, and prop up your axle to the correct height based on your tire diameter. Using somebody else's measurements without mocking up your own parts is asking for conflict.
Photos help here but there are dropped steering arms available from the rod ch***is trinket purveyors or you can modify your own or have them modified by one of the shops that do that as part of their business. Now about those photos to show us what you are up against so someone can come up with a viable suggestion that will work and not be all that hard to deal with.
After looking at that picture I see you are running a rack and not a steering box Right? So steering arms are no help as you don't have any of the those. I don't know much about the system you are running but it would seem that if you do have a interference problem you may just have to move the mount for the Rack or for the hairpins.
I'd ***ume his interference is his tie rod and drag link hitting the lower arm of the hair pin. This would happen if he went from a 5 inch drop to a 4 inch drop and kept the same steering arm situation because it's moving the steering arms an inch closer to that lower arm. Has nothing to do with that mono rack thingy. Could just as well be a normal box. You need steering arms with less drop. The end. ~ the only difference between a stock axle, 4" drop axle and a 5" drop axle happens past the spring perches so the rest of the car is the same reguirdless of what your axle drop is.
Oh and I haven't any idea why the frame side of the hair pins would need moved. Did you come to that conclusion after you bolted the hair pins to the axle, the axle to the spring and the spring to your new crossmember? If you didn't mock it up like that I'm not sure how you could accurately think they need moved. If you did this and they land an inch lower than where the existing mount is my first thoughtnisnto measure each wishbone and compare, is one bent? Are they both an inch off are just one? Are they adjusted the same on the batwing? If they are straight, adjusted the same and measure equally then your "problem" lays in the difference between your original crossmember that everything was set up with and your new one. Think about it like this, if you change the caster of the crossmember a few degrees it's going to be amplified by the time it gets to the end of the wishbone.
Tim you sound right. I think I need new steering arms. I heated and bent the others but am not happy with them. In the pictures you will see I have the hairpins raised up in the rear, this makes the axle look to be correct with the crossmember. I need to get an angle finder to get it right. I am learning, never thought it would be a big deal! Just bolt it on. Advice is welcome.......... Last picture is the ch***is as I got it. Anyone want a Super Bell 5" dropped axle? With a little custom work....
Where are you measuring your caster with the axle in the car? I want to say the top of the king pin is ideal.
Are your arms holes tapered from both directions? If so, stick the rod ends in from the top and see how things fit. If not, find a friend with a 7 degree taper and taper them halfway from the top. It will be safe and work fine, I've done it. Are you sure the arms are forged instead of cast? If they are cast you can not bend them safely.
It looks like you are mounting the hairpin with an upper 4-bar mount that is already in place You need to forget that and use new mounts for the hairpins, where the hairpins need to be! The hairpin mounting point sweet spot with the caster and all the rest correct is probably somewhere between the upper and lower 4 bar mounts. Get that right and the steering issue probably won't be an issue.
@X38 "Upper four bar mount that's already in place" Are you meaning the bracket that's on the frame? I don't think it's in the wrong place. Why? Because this was a put together car previously and it got banged up and dragged the front axle and apparently front crossmember. He's changed the axle and the front crossmember and if if that crossmember has the same caster built into it that the original one did then there is zero reason that mount is in the wrong place now. It just doesn't make any since at all. Something is off and we haven't figured it out yet but before you get him cutting things apart he needs to be measuring things. Him cutting that mount off and making it fit his hairpin right now could very well be modifying good mounts to fix bent hair pins. That's like changing a tire and you've accidentally got it backwards so it won't bolt on because of offsets all wrong, so instead of measuring it and realizing you need to turn the wheel around you just take the brake drum off so it clears. This isn't a fresh ch***is. This was a complete car that got torn down. In regards to what's going on they are totally different animals
Ok I see it now, if you look at the very first photo he posted you can see the frame mount only has one hole. The new photos make it look like he's got the hairpin bolted to the frame. But it's just sitting against the frame there's not a hole there. I have to wonder if part of your issue isn't that you've got this sitting on jack stands under the wishbones. Put the jack stands under the axle and see how much they move
Second.....third thought! Have you got the hairpins on upside down? If they aren't exactly mirrored top to bottom the difference would be doubled having them on upside down. Say they run downhill 1/2 inch. Put them on upside down and the hole is a inch off now.
Yep, look at the hairpin mount in this pic. If the hairpin was lined up correctly with the mount it looks like it would drop down and there would be no interference with the steering arm.
Top hairpin clevis wound right in, bottom wound out. They should be basically the same if the rear mount is in the right place. The pic above looks like there's an upper hole for a 4 bar? Maybe it's an illusion. In any case, there's no way the mount should be on the rail, way too high.
There's lots to see here and looking at pictures just isn't the same as being there and putting hands on, but here are my thoughts anyway. For starters I would adjust the hair pins, and what I see now is the lower clevis showing more thread which helps with positive caster, so apparently they were correct for the caster with the 5" axle. The rear rod end (urethane bushed) looks like it could be threaded in deeper to shorten up the length of the hair pin, but also it looks as though there is no jam nut on it. Once the rear rod end has a jam nut installed and it is adjusted in the h/p might still be too long. If that is the case I'd cut a bit off the front and screw the clevises in more, and if you run out of thread get a 5/8-18 tap and run the threads deeper. In any event, before cutting the tubes have the rear mount bolted up and the bolts out of the clevises and hold it next to the h/p mount on the axle and sight how much to cut off. It does not appear that the h/p's are bent, the lower clevis is out further than the upper so they are not upside down and even if the front crossmember is not on the right angle the front axle has adjustable spring perches to get the caster right with no bind on the spring.
First, are those rear 4-bar mounts? If yes, consider that neither the upper nor lower hole is the right place for a rear hairpin mount, like Alchemy says. Before you do anything, however, follow fordors' advice to see that maybe the lower rear 4-bar hole might line up. If so, that problem is solved. If not, be prepared to put in a third hole somewhere between those two rear mounts. Finally, X38 is dead on. Reaming a 7-degree taper from the top halfway into these arms won't hurt, regardless of whether you mount from the top or bottom. It just gives you the flexibility to make this come together. Finally, last thing to try, is to replace or heat and bend the steering arms. Don't do it unless absolutely necessary. Oh, and one other thing. Once all that's worked out and your steering is fine, make sure your upper shock mounts don't interfere with the fender brackets. Had to slightly modify mine. These guys give great advice. Good luck.
Here is what I wound up with on my front suspension. Ordered new steering arms. Adjusted the hair pins to get the right axle rake. Seems to work well.
those frame brackets are for a 4 bar front end. if you got it to work in the lower hole with the right caster then your all good except for the looks , whats the caster at now? 5-7 degrees is what you need
When you said you replaced the front crossmember and set it at 7degrees, did you verify it didn't have 5-7 degrees internally and it gets installed flat to the frame lip? If it does and you set the crossmember at another 7degrees when you welded it that will be a problem. Some aftermarket crossmembers have the internal caster built in and some don't.
looks like you have received good advice, certainly nothing I could add to solving your immediate problem. but after looking at the pictures of the damaged front end, I just wanted to mention that if you haven't already done so you should probably check to see if the frame is diamond shaped as it looks to have been hit sharply on the left front corner.
Have checked everything to be square and straight. The crossmember did have the correct 5 to 7 * on it but I also measured to be sure. I made sure the axle was set to the right angle also. I put in a lot of hours on this frame but had a blast doing it. I am sure it is stronger than it was when purchased originally. I am also thinking of making an X member to fit. Learning as I go. Now it is time for the sedan on the left to be sold. I can't bear to take it apart to put on this ch***is. Got a coupe body. Nice body but in pieces.
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