Technical Ford SMOD column shift

Is there a good way to tell if the counter shaft bearings are toast in the OD trans. Without pulling the cluster out?

 

PTO cable with lever....wow why didnt I think of that! Thanks! I'm going to use something like this hidden under the dash, with a period looking knob on it.

 

A morse cable would work. B&M use similar. Early (Pre65) FE. I use a late 184t flywheel with late stater with my FE
Here is starter comparison btwn early 156t & later 184t

 

This has been very helpful so far guys!

Thank you! I'll keep this thread up

 

It's not so much the bearings as shaft wear. If you can find something to use as a pilot shaft to drive the countershaft out, keeping the bearings in place, you can check for shaft wear without dis***embling the whole trans. If that has visible/excessive wear (basically, anything you can feel with a fingernail), it needs to come apart. But it's still not a bad idea to 'freshen' one with a unknown history.

 

I'm thinking I will tear it apart to replace bearings anyhow.

Thank you for that info. I'll post my findings. Hopefully there is no wear on the shaft and all is useable.

I've never been into a top-loader before.

 

Here is a link that will supply some specs.http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/TremecT170FT.htm
I have never worked on a 4 speed top loader, but I have done Muncies and T10 s . These come apart and go back together very different. I am refreshing an SROD TOD now and I couldn't find any info after 3 weeks of looking. I used An "ask a mechanic" site and it has worked well. There is some wear sign on the cluster shaft ( no ridge ) , but the the greatest wear I found was on the syncro sliders. I am planning on replacing both of these,if available. BTW , the mechanic supplied me with the only printed info I have.

 

Got it home today. It appears to have been rebuilt judging by the paint on it.

Ive shifted it through the gears to see if it still has the OD 4th gear and that nobody had used the case for another gear ser. 4th is around 0.75:1

The tail shaft is 3.5" shorter on the OD unit. Not sure what I'm going to do about that. I have yet to remove the tailpiece to see if the tail shaft is indeed one piece, I ***ume it is. I can have a longer drive shaft made i guess.

One thing I noted is that I can engage 1st or 2nd at the same time as Reverse and lock up the whole thing. 3rd and 4th are interlocked and I cannot enquage R at the same time. The 1 and 2 shift shaft seems to not have an interlock at all. Or maybe there isnt one in these units?

 

It sounds like you better look inside. from what I've read in various places the shift mechanism is different, but the gear arrangement is very similar. Because of that I believe you should have an interlock between 1st and reverse. Also the shift detent springs can cause problems with the interlocks proper operation.

 

I would suggest a morse 33c cable to run the reverse. You can attach it to the od handle and have a nylon lined cable that is available with an ***ortment of ends.

 

So I'm trying to figure out how the interlock works with the 3 shift rails and detents. Also, there is a bit of slop on the input shaft bearing so I'm going to tear it all apart. I may have to watch some videos!

My pulled 3 speed seems to show almost exactly the same amount of play on the input shaft.

I'm hoping I can swap the output shafts so I'll have the correct length and have the speedo cable on the left side.

I dont see any broken dog teeth or significant damage to the sincros. However the input shaft to counter shaft gear shows some teeth pointing, but I'm not sure how much would necessitate replacement.

No real scary stuff on the magnet.

 

Shipping would be a killer.... I'm about three thousand miles away, in another country.

Yeah, it's pretty marginal. I replaced the inner wire, which I think was around .055" diameter, with a length of spring wire that's .062". Still kind of iffy but so far so good, I am careful with putting it into reverse.

When I have a transmission out I always rotate the countershaft 180 degrees to even out wear, if it is still in okay shape. The wear is mostly on the top of the shaft, since the gears are always pushing each other apart.

 

I need a longer puller to get the input out. But already found some washboard type of wear on the counter shaft.

Got a be build kit and a counter shaft on the way.

 

It's been a few years, but I'm pretty sure you should be able to just remove the input shaft by hand. That is, after the counter gear is dropped down by removing its shaft.

 

Have to pull the bearing off the shaft on this unit. The counter gear is still too big for the input synchro hub to clear. I pulled the counter shaft and it only dropped 1/4". I think it's due to the wide ratio gears.

 

I started ***embly on my SROD TOD unit today. I needed a "dummy " cluster shaft to install the cluster gear and after a couple of hours and much aggravation I made a strap to hold the rollers in the rear end of the cluster. I wrapped it across the end and used a hose clamp to hold it in place.

 

After getting a long enough puller and pulling the rear bearing it was pretty straight forward.

I found this stuck to the magnet.
I believe this is my missing 1-2 interlock.



According to some videos I watched it is definate that this unit has been apart before. There are plastic thrust washers on the counter cluster which I believe are aftermarket. OEM would be br***. The synchro rings all lock on the gears very well so I'm going to leave them.

The front ball bearing had slop as well as the rear bearing. I'm replacing all the bearings, the counter shaft, and seals. Should be straightforward......I hope!

 

As a side note, I found this wedged in between the OD gear and the input gear on the counter cluster.

Dont know if there was some type of "harmonic damper" and this is what's left of it, or if it is something left there. Its rubber. No signs of and other foreign matter in the case.

 

I seem to remember getting a length of round stock somewhere, maybe McMaster, to use as a dummy shaft. I am sure I still have it after nearly forty years.

I did the 180 degree flip trip when I first rebuilt the transmission. I think the front bearing failed a second time a few years later, and it was popping out of second upon deceleration a number of years after that.

both times the front bearing failed were upon cold start at -20 degrees.

 

There is a washboard pattern of wear on the counter shaft. Ever so slight. The input end is worse.

It really seems that this would be much worse in the toploader design with overdrive. As a 3 or 4 speed would spend the majority of the time in top gear and be 1:1. The counter cluster and those rollers are just along for the ride.

Now they add an overdrive and the counter cluster sees load in top gear with relatively small bearing surfaces. This includes the input ball bearing as well.

I think that's why the general toploader gear design has been dropped. More bearing surface area is needed.

Seems most boxes are a 4 speed with 5th (OD) added on. This makes more sense now. Overdrive needs it's own bearing support for the added load.

I've been into a few OT VW boxes and changed 5th gear with the trans still in the vehicle.

 

I had not thought about the relationship of overdrive load and wear, but it makes sense when I compare the wear areas in my trans to yours. The syncro teeth on my input shaft also seem to have more wear than the other gears. I looked to get a new input shaft; so far, not available.

 

David Kee has new input shafts available.

I just emailed him about interchangeably of a regular 4 speed main shaft and this OD unit. I need either a 27" main shaft to replace the 24"one, or have a new longer driveshaft built.

 

Another source for toploader and toploader based transmission parts is the Jeep crowd. Jeep parts suppliers as well as internet sellers offer gears for the Jeep 176, 177 and 178 transmissions which are based on the Ford unit and share many parts.

Individual gears are sold for Jeep transmissions that might suit some of the oddball Ford toploaders like the overdrives.

 

Decided to take my close ratio 3 speed toploader apart to compare the main shafts....hoping that I may be able to machine the 3 speed one into a 4 speed one... I have not had any luck finding a 4 speed mainshaft 27" long with 28 splines.

Left is 3 speed, right is OD 4 speed


If there are any toploader guys out there, I'm looking for a 4 speed main shaft to compare this OD unit to. Otherwise I'll need to cut, weld, and sleeve to make my long tailpiece work. Which I'd like to avail if at all possible.

 

Replaced the typical stuff which comes is a master rebuild kit including the counter shaft, 1st gear, and 4th gear.

 

Now going to replace the 11" clutch which they used an 11.5" long pressure plate.

Also putting on a 184 tooth ring gear to bring it up to the newer starter.

Drilling the flywheel so I can use a parts store LuK 11" clutch kit that is $120 instead of the modern driveline $400 clutch kit which would directly bolt up to my 11.5" long pattern flywheel.